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But also not surprising because despite the decades of restrictions which have limited Cuba’s ability to import medical supplies, they have one of the best medi

But also not surprising because despite the decades of restrictions which have limited Cuba’s ability to import medical supplies, they have one of the best medical systems in the world.

crakenzak 5y ago
> they have one of the best medical systems in the world. citation needed
- woodruffw 5y ago
  I believe the quality and breadth of Cuba's medical system rises to the level of conventional wisdom[1][2]. Edit: I forgot to link statistics for the country itself, not just the doctors they send abroad. They perform admirably against both the U.S. and most European countries[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism [2]: https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_stat...
- belltaco 5y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/
- pessimizer 5y ago
  The citation is the first result of any search related to Cuba and medicine on any search engine.
- zeusly 5y ago
  Here's a ranking from the WHO: https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf 39 out of 191, 2 places behind the US.
  - SettembreNero 5y ago
    While being free of charge
- w0de0 5y ago
  It well-known that Cuba has an impressive healthcare system and does not particularly need to be cited unless specific claims are made. Cuba is famous, for instance, for exporting doctors to other nations. In any case, here is a short paper showing Cuba's healthcare outcomes are comparable to Canada and US: https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%20yrs%20US%20Embargo%20Cuba%20Health%20Outcomes.pdf https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%2...
  - sdfin 5y ago
    Cuban doctors' don't seem to be very happy with that, according to the NYT and BBC: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cub... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513
    - LightG 5y ago
      While important to you and me, the attitude of the doctors is not in question here, just the level of Cuba's medical expertise.
    - runarberg 5y ago
      The same applies for Iceland. Nurses keep striking, doctors call for more funding, health care experts keep complaining about lack of facilities. Yet Iceland has one of the best health care system in the world. Be it a capitalist country like Iceland or a socialist like Cuba, with enough funding and an educated workforce you can run a pretty successful healthcare system, despite the fact that it could be better. And perhaps that is precisely why the workers in a successful healthcare system complain. They are educated enough to know how it could be improved even further.
      - sdfin 5y ago
        Your answer is not related to the content of the articles.
- chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
  Cuba has a life expectancy of 78.8, just under the United States' 79.1. Their infant mortality rate 5.1 deaths per 1000 births, slightly better than 6.5 in the US. Cuba also has the highest rate of physicians per citizen in all of latin america, and has a huge medical diplomacy progam, sending doctors all over the world. It's a pretty controversial topic, though- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting_views_on_Cuba's_health_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting...
  - waitHowsThat 5y ago
    Just a reminder that the Physician Cartel in the United States is downright dangerous. I wonder if a lawyer could do a class action lawsuit against the AMA members. Drug addictions and unaffordable healthcare is some sort of manslaughter.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- xeromal 5y ago
  It's widely known. No citation needed.
- ruined 5y ago
  https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ structurally, it's a good target model. materially, capitalist embargoes have prevented import of drugs and equipment that isn't already manufactured locally. https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526 https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-r... they also provide medical education for free, even to foreign citizens. notably, che guevara was a doctor before he was a soldier, and this probably informed the cuban communist party's healthcare policy.
- tomjakubowski 5y ago
  World Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. Of course, compared to other developed countries, the USA hardly delivers great healthcare to its population. So Cuba might not be a top country for healthcare in the world, but what they do have is impressive given the circumstances.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    > World Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. The average Cuban makes in the neighborhood of $30 a month. Cuban doctors make about $70 a month. US doctors make something around $30,000 a month. As it turns out, it is much easier to have a cheap medical system when you pay basically nothing for labor. However, this is a feature of a system which is otherwise rather unenviable.
    - morelisp 5y ago
      The unenviable part is the $30-70 range, not the 2x income spread.
      - fennecfoxen 5y ago
        Indeed. We would surely be living in fantastical, glorious times if the US median income were to rise to ~$180,000. (In real figures, of course, not just hyperinflation.) I believe this would require us to triple GNP, if not more. I am almost entirely in favor of this proposal, except that it would probably be preferable in such a case to admit immigrants from less prosperous parts of the world who would go on to earn substantially less than that. This would bring the overall income figure down, but would still be a major win for the world's overall prosperity.
    - mping 5y ago
      You imply that the bulk of the costs are labour costs, but medical invoices in the US suggest otherwise.
    - 5y ago
- saiya-jin 5y ago
  HN at its best... this is known for a very long time. I don't know how much GDP budget they put into medical system, or what other miracle they managed to perform long term, but its true. Of course its relative - is it better than Switzerland? Of course not, but comparing to peers in 3rd world, they are absolutely stellar. Cheap/free advanced medicine and care, tons of foreign missions around the world. I recall from cold war, Cuban medical scientists and doctors were regarded as top notch in eastern bloc and many exchange missions were done to get some of that to other parts of the world. From Cuban perspective, cold war didn't end with fall of USSR
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  Cuba legitimately has one of the best medical education systems in the world. It's one of the regime's successes. On the other hand, many of these doctors are sent to work in Cuba's allies, where most of their pay goes to the Cuban government. At home, their medical system goes through some pretty rough patches from time to time, and you have people who need to turn to the black market to buy the iodine necessary for disinfection of their own surgeries.
- rubatuga 5y ago
  I heard it's mid-tier, but nowhere near "the best". For example, developing countries would appreciate it if Cuban doctors came to volunteer, but they aren't at the standard of US doctors.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't post flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
baybal2 5y ago
Maybe it is not that hard to run a basic medical system if some leadership, administrative proves, and money put together?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Do you think it's hard to run it to better outcomes than the US?
  - baybal2 5y ago
    No, one have to try really hard to mess it up as bad as it is in US
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      As far as cost efficiency, this is certainly true. That said, I come from a country that is economically in a very similar situation to Cuba, and their healtcare system is much superior.

But also not surprising because despite the decades of restrictions which have limited Cuba’s ability to import medical supplies, they have one of the best medical systems in the world.

crakenzak 5y ago

> they have one of the best medical systems in the world. citation needed

woodruffw 5y ago
I believe the quality and breadth of Cuba's medical system rises to the level of conventional wisdom[1][2]. Edit: I forgot to link statistics for the country itself, not just the doctors they send abroad. They perform admirably against both the U.S. and most European countries[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_medical_internationalism [2]: https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ https://time.com/5467742/cuba-doctors-export-brazil/ [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Health_stat...
belltaco 5y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645168/
pessimizer 5y ago
The citation is the first result of any search related to Cuba and medicine on any search engine.
zeusly 5y ago
Here's a ranking from the WHO: https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf 39 out of 191, 2 places behind the US.
- SettembreNero 5y ago
  While being free of charge
w0de0 5y ago
It well-known that Cuba has an impressive healthcare system and does not particularly need to be cited unless specific claims are made. Cuba is famous, for instance, for exporting doctors to other nations. In any case, here is a short paper showing Cuba's healthcare outcomes are comparable to Canada and US: https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%20yrs%20US%20Embargo%20Cuba%20Health%20Outcomes.pdf https://globalhealth.washington.edu/sites/default/files/50%2...
- sdfin 5y ago
  Cuban doctors' don't seem to be very happy with that, according to the NYT and BBC: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cub... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48214513
  - LightG 5y ago
    While important to you and me, the attitude of the doctors is not in question here, just the level of Cuba's medical expertise.
  - runarberg 5y ago
    The same applies for Iceland. Nurses keep striking, doctors call for more funding, health care experts keep complaining about lack of facilities. Yet Iceland has one of the best health care system in the world. Be it a capitalist country like Iceland or a socialist like Cuba, with enough funding and an educated workforce you can run a pretty successful healthcare system, despite the fact that it could be better. And perhaps that is precisely why the workers in a successful healthcare system complain. They are educated enough to know how it could be improved even further.
    - sdfin 5y ago
      Your answer is not related to the content of the articles.
chizhik-pyzhik 5y ago
Cuba has a life expectancy of 78.8, just under the United States' 79.1. Their infant mortality rate 5.1 deaths per 1000 births, slightly better than 6.5 in the US. Cuba also has the highest rate of physicians per citizen in all of latin america, and has a huge medical diplomacy progam, sending doctors all over the world. It's a pretty controversial topic, though- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting_views_on_Cuba's_health_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba#Contrasting...
- waitHowsThat 5y ago
  Just a reminder that the Physician Cartel in the United States is downright dangerous. I wonder if a lawyer could do a class action lawsuit against the AMA members. Drug addictions and unaffordable healthcare is some sort of manslaughter.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
xeromal 5y ago
It's widely known. No citation needed.
ruined 5y ago
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/5/08-030508/en/ structurally, it's a good target model. materially, capitalist embargoes have prevented import of drugs and equipment that isn't already manufactured locally. https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-really-as-great-as-people-claim-69526 https://theconversation.com/is-the-cuban-healthcare-system-r... they also provide medical education for free, even to foreign citizens. notably, che guevara was a doctor before he was a soldier, and this probably informed the cuban communist party's healthcare policy.
tomjakubowski 5y ago
World Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. Of course, compared to other developed countries, the USA hardly delivers great healthcare to its population. So Cuba might not be a top country for healthcare in the world, but what they do have is impressive given the circumstances.
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  > World Bank puts Cuba's public health statistics largely on par with the United States, at about one-tenth the per-capita cost. The average Cuban makes in the neighborhood of $30 a month. Cuban doctors make about $70 a month. US doctors make something around $30,000 a month. As it turns out, it is much easier to have a cheap medical system when you pay basically nothing for labor. However, this is a feature of a system which is otherwise rather unenviable.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    The unenviable part is the $30-70 range, not the 2x income spread.
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      Indeed. We would surely be living in fantastical, glorious times if the US median income were to rise to ~$180,000. (In real figures, of course, not just hyperinflation.) I believe this would require us to triple GNP, if not more. I am almost entirely in favor of this proposal, except that it would probably be preferable in such a case to admit immigrants from less prosperous parts of the world who would go on to earn substantially less than that. This would bring the overall income figure down, but would still be a major win for the world's overall prosperity.
  - mping 5y ago
    You imply that the bulk of the costs are labour costs, but medical invoices in the US suggest otherwise.
  - 5y ago
saiya-jin 5y ago
HN at its best... this is known for a very long time. I don't know how much GDP budget they put into medical system, or what other miracle they managed to perform long term, but its true. Of course its relative - is it better than Switzerland? Of course not, but comparing to peers in 3rd world, they are absolutely stellar. Cheap/free advanced medicine and care, tons of foreign missions around the world. I recall from cold war, Cuban medical scientists and doctors were regarded as top notch in eastern bloc and many exchange missions were done to get some of that to other parts of the world. From Cuban perspective, cold war didn't end with fall of USSR
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
fennecfoxen 5y ago
Cuba legitimately has one of the best medical education systems in the world. It's one of the regime's successes. On the other hand, many of these doctors are sent to work in Cuba's allies, where most of their pay goes to the Cuban government. At home, their medical system goes through some pretty rough patches from time to time, and you have people who need to turn to the black market to buy the iodine necessary for disinfection of their own surgeries.
rubatuga 5y ago
I heard it's mid-tier, but nowhere near "the best". For example, developing countries would appreciate it if Cuban doctors came to volunteer, but they aren't at the standard of US doctors.
dang 5y ago
Please don't post flamebait and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

baybal2 5y ago

Maybe it is not that hard to run a basic medical system if some leadership, administrative proves, and money put together?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sudosysgen 5y ago
Do you think it's hard to run it to better outcomes than the US?
- baybal2 5y ago
  No, one have to try really hard to mess it up as bad as it is in US
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    As far as cost efficiency, this is certainly true. That said, I come from a country that is economically in a very similar situation to Cuba, and their healtcare system is much superior.