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I know what's Linux and what's Wine, and Roblox is some video game; but what's the interesting part in this page?

by nsajko 5y ago

boba7 5y ago
This particular video game is crucial for gnu/linux to become popular and finally crush Microsoft.
- gizmo385 5y ago
  I don't think Linux is anywhere close to crushing Windows as the de facto desktop gaming platform.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Zhyl 5y ago
    Closer than you might think. With Valves efforts now 88% [0] of the top hundred Steam games run on Linux and there is ongoing work to improve drivers, support and UX. Steam now allows you to install any Windows game on linux in the same way you'd install any other game. That's a big improvement. Anti-cheat is an issue, but otherwise it isn't a million miles away. [0] https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
    - caslon 5y ago
      I think the above poster was more talking in terms of market share. I only use free software, so I don't really have an incentive to shill against Linux here, but it's worth noting that among the premiere desktop gaming platform, more people use PC VR than Linux. Linux isn't winning here, despite its better...everything, because Windows has two major advantages: It's already installed, and games are marketed to kids who more often than not probably don't have a choice in operating system! Markets don't optimize for efficiency in computing.
      - auggierose 5y ago
        Also, Linux isn't better everything, it is a pita.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        It's not as good as the evangelists make out, it's not as hopeless as the detractors make out. The "news" is that in the last 5 years it has gone from "absolutely not viable for gaming" to "good enough for a lot of people".
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Hardly, when the solution is to emulate the ABI of another OS. OS/2 was also a great platform for games by that measure, thanks Win-OS/2.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        I'm not really sure what you mean. You can play games on it. That's good enough for a lot of people. I don't really see why it being due to a compatibility layer or being native has much to do with my claim.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        The Windows compatibility layer for OS/2 was one of the reasons why at the end of the day no one cared to create OS/2 applications, providing zero benefits to acquire it versus the real deal. Same applies to GNU/Linux, hence Windows continues to thrive, while the 1% of the desktop folks get to taste Windows games with an ABI emulation layer.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        I think in contrast Linux has plenty going for it, especially in the context of Windows being increasingly buggy, bloated, advertising-ridden, telemetry sending behemoth which has frustrated users universally with mandated update policies. Linux is mostly not being used because people don't have all the software they need and translation layers solve that. We're entering a different space in desktop OS usage. Windows is changing the desktop metaphor to be more similar to macOS and mobile computing is being used by an increasing number of people as a daily driver. In short, I don't think ABI emulation layers are the reason Linux is only at 1%. Indeed it was at 1% before Proton was released.
    - pizza234 5y ago
      88 out of the 100 top Steam games are not representative of desktop gaming in general, even less "crushing" windows, where games run out of the box, and as intended ("platinum"). The value 88(%) is also misleading. It represents games running at least at bronze level (the lowest quality of a playable game). The percentage of perfectly running games (via Proton) is 15%. I support Proton as a shortcut to release Linux-compatible games, but there's no comparison, in the big picture.
      - Zhyl 5y ago
        But running out of the box with no tweaks includes Gold, Platinum and Native which is far more than 50%. I'm less about trying to imply that Linux is "crushing" Windows and more about it being seen as a viable option (i.e. " not a million miles away"). I think I'm against out of hand dismissal, which your post and the post I responded to are without qualification or balance.
        pizza234 5y ago
        To be clear, I don't dismiss Proton/Wine at all. I didn't intend "shortcut" as derogative (bad word choice :)); rather, given the limited resources of game development, it may make Linux ports possible (as opposed to native ports, which take significantly more resources). John Carmack actually supports this approach. My criticism is that while there is the impression/hope that at some point the "emulation" will be completed, based on my experience (with Wine and ReactOS), it never will - it's a virtually infinite amount of new hacks/tweaks/small additions. My conclusion is it a type of work that will require continuous employment of (development resources), and will be more of a workaround, than a solution. (regarding the "crush", this was actually in reference to an ancestor post) Including native ports in the discussion, or excluding them, is a tricky discussion, which I consider separate - my points were about Wine/Proton specifically. I actually do play games, but even if my O/S is Linux (and essentially all the games are on Steam), I still run games in a VM.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot of sense.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      And yet it is barely over 1% Linux desktop usage.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - Thaxll 5y ago
      It's not even close, it does not play most recents games.
      - Zhyl 5y ago
        Thankfully thanks to ProtonDB we can see exactly which games run and what the caveats are. I think "it does not play most recent games" is untrue without qualification.
        eitland 5y ago
        Importantly CS:GO runs better on Linux than on Windows on my hardware (and that is after tweaking Windows for max performance.)
        raptorfactor 5y ago
        CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It still gets regularly updates sure, but it's nearly a decade old and the engine hasn't evolved in that time in a way that would make it comparable to a current-gen game.
        eitland 5y ago
        > CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It is however one of todays most well known games.
        raptorfactor 5y ago
        Sure, but that's not what was up for debate in the comment chain you were responding to. That was specifically about how well it handles "recent" games. Not how well it handles old but still popular games. WoW also runs great under Wine for example afaik. I'm not diminishing the value of games like that running well under Wine, I think it's great. But it's not the same as "recent" games running well. As one of the GPs points out anti-cheat is unfortunately another big hurdle. CS:GO works great because VAC runs in user-mode and Valve go out of their way to specifically detect Wine and adjust behavior as appropriate (I reverse engineered it extensively some years ago). I think EAC has a native Linux client, but many of the big names are still unplayable. If you try to play Valorant, Apex, Siege, Warzone, PUBG, etc. my understanding is they'll barely even launch, let alone allow you to join a multiplayer match.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  That ship departed in 2000.
stingraycharles 5y ago
Roblox is very popular among children, and having Linux support is a big deal. Consider it the equivalent of “Minecraft finally runs on Linux”.
bemmu 5y ago
Roblox is more than just a game, it’s like a web browser that instead of showing pages anyone can make allows you to join 3D multiplayer hangouts/games anyone can make. 75% of kids aged 9-12 in the US join these hangouts, and I imagine not being able to participate would be a Linux adoption dealbreaker for many.
- mrspeaker 5y ago
  Yeah, calling it a "game" is underselling it. My nephew and niece were really into Roblox, so I thought I'd be the "cool uncle" and have a go at making something for them in Roblox Studio. I dragged out my macbook (as there was no Linux support) and it was ridiculously easy to make a 3D multiplayer game that millions of people could play instantly (sure, only a handful of their friends played my creation, but still - if you made something good, the audience is there!). It was also a great introduction to my niece on using 3D software - she loved adding tonnes of random stuff and moving it around into weird structures. I've tried to make multiplayer games in the past, and it's a nightmare. Having a giant player base already authenticated, with all the plumbing in place - it's just a really fun environment to develop for. I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for making "more serious" games.
  - hhh 5y ago
    As someone not in the target age group, the game Phantom Forces in Roblox is one of the greatest FPS games to date. All of the weapons have very visible stats, no pseudo-stats displayed with bars (that sometimes aren't even accurate.) Newer FPS games are starting to get this right, however. Phantom Forces even had a sponsored event with Disney.
    - 83457 5y ago
      I tried Phantom Forces and got the impression that the main thing going for it was being available in Roblox and a clone of a great game. There are many fps clones in Roblox and PF may be the best of them but I don't think it is comparable in quality to games like CSGO and Valorant.
  - 5y ago
speeder 5y ago
Last I tried to run Roblox on wine the problem is Roblox policy officially consider Linux to be cheat software and ban anyone attempting that immediately.
- indigodaddy 5y ago
  This is addressed in the article
- astroanax 5y ago
  That doesn't seem to be an issue now, tried it with Grapejuice and didn't get banned. From the Grapejuice Discord, this also seems to be the case for other Roblox on Linux users.
bitfhacker 5y ago
I have 3 kids and all of them play Roblox. In the past I tried to run Roblox with wine but it didn't run. Now, in the laptops of my kids, I can switch to Linux...
- taf2 5y ago
  So I have wine running on my linux machine in the house so my girls can play the sims… I noticed on the web browser the other day my kids had been searching how to install mods. Interestingly they had gotten pretty far but couldn’t figure it out all the way since all the guides online pointed how to do it in windows… it got me thinking maybe I’m depriving them by having the linux setup… little successes along the way build confidence… it’s made me consider having the games on windows… only reason I went wine in the first place is I could not for the life of me figure out how to get windows to install… unbuntu was a 20 minute process… windows failed with some kind of driver error related to sata controller issues … spent a few nights and decided to just run wine… gonna look back into it thought want them to have the little successes of independence… 12 years old
  - simion314 5y ago
    Hi, I can confirm that Sims3 and Sims4 mods work fine under Wine. My suggestion is to teach your children to always read instructions and install the mods one at a time and test. It is easy to install something incorrectly and crash your game.

I know what's Linux and what's Wine, and Roblox is some video game; but what's the interesting part in this page?

by nsajko 5y ago

I know what's Linux and what's Wine, and Roblox is some video game; but what's the interesting part in this page?

boba7 5y ago

This particular video game is crucial for gnu/linux to become popular and finally crush Microsoft.

gizmo385 5y ago
I don't think Linux is anywhere close to crushing Windows as the de facto desktop gaming platform.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Zhyl 5y ago
  Closer than you might think. With Valves efforts now 88% [0] of the top hundred Steam games run on Linux and there is ongoing work to improve drivers, support and UX. Steam now allows you to install any Windows game on linux in the same way you'd install any other game. That's a big improvement. Anti-cheat is an issue, but otherwise it isn't a million miles away. [0] https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
  - caslon 5y ago
    I think the above poster was more talking in terms of market share. I only use free software, so I don't really have an incentive to shill against Linux here, but it's worth noting that among the premiere desktop gaming platform, more people use PC VR than Linux. Linux isn't winning here, despite its better...everything, because Windows has two major advantages: It's already installed, and games are marketed to kids who more often than not probably don't have a choice in operating system! Markets don't optimize for efficiency in computing.
    - auggierose 5y ago
      Also, Linux isn't better everything, it is a pita.
      - Zhyl 5y ago
        It's not as good as the evangelists make out, it's not as hopeless as the detractors make out. The "news" is that in the last 5 years it has gone from "absolutely not viable for gaming" to "good enough for a lot of people".
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Hardly, when the solution is to emulate the ABI of another OS. OS/2 was also a great platform for games by that measure, thanks Win-OS/2.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        I'm not really sure what you mean. You can play games on it. That's good enough for a lot of people. I don't really see why it being due to a compatibility layer or being native has much to do with my claim.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        The Windows compatibility layer for OS/2 was one of the reasons why at the end of the day no one cared to create OS/2 applications, providing zero benefits to acquire it versus the real deal. Same applies to GNU/Linux, hence Windows continues to thrive, while the 1% of the desktop folks get to taste Windows games with an ABI emulation layer.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        I think in contrast Linux has plenty going for it, especially in the context of Windows being increasingly buggy, bloated, advertising-ridden, telemetry sending behemoth which has frustrated users universally with mandated update policies. Linux is mostly not being used because people don't have all the software they need and translation layers solve that. We're entering a different space in desktop OS usage. Windows is changing the desktop metaphor to be more similar to macOS and mobile computing is being used by an increasing number of people as a daily driver. In short, I don't think ABI emulation layers are the reason Linux is only at 1%. Indeed it was at 1% before Proton was released.
  - pizza234 5y ago
    88 out of the 100 top Steam games are not representative of desktop gaming in general, even less "crushing" windows, where games run out of the box, and as intended ("platinum"). The value 88(%) is also misleading. It represents games running at least at bronze level (the lowest quality of a playable game). The percentage of perfectly running games (via Proton) is 15%. I support Proton as a shortcut to release Linux-compatible games, but there's no comparison, in the big picture.
    - Zhyl 5y ago
      But running out of the box with no tweaks includes Gold, Platinum and Native which is far more than 50%. I'm less about trying to imply that Linux is "crushing" Windows and more about it being seen as a viable option (i.e. " not a million miles away"). I think I'm against out of hand dismissal, which your post and the post I responded to are without qualification or balance.
      - pizza234 5y ago
        To be clear, I don't dismiss Proton/Wine at all. I didn't intend "shortcut" as derogative (bad word choice :)); rather, given the limited resources of game development, it may make Linux ports possible (as opposed to native ports, which take significantly more resources). John Carmack actually supports this approach. My criticism is that while there is the impression/hope that at some point the "emulation" will be completed, based on my experience (with Wine and ReactOS), it never will - it's a virtually infinite amount of new hacks/tweaks/small additions. My conclusion is it a type of work that will require continuous employment of (development resources), and will be more of a workaround, than a solution. (regarding the "crush", this was actually in reference to an ancestor post) Including native ports in the discussion, or excluding them, is a tricky discussion, which I consider separate - my points were about Wine/Proton specifically. I actually do play games, but even if my O/S is Linux (and essentially all the games are on Steam), I still run games in a VM.
        Zhyl 5y ago
        Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot of sense.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    And yet it is barely over 1% Linux desktop usage.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - Thaxll 5y ago
    It's not even close, it does not play most recents games.
    - Zhyl 5y ago
      Thankfully thanks to ProtonDB we can see exactly which games run and what the caveats are. I think "it does not play most recent games" is untrue without qualification.
      - eitland 5y ago
        Importantly CS:GO runs better on Linux than on Windows on my hardware (and that is after tweaking Windows for max performance.)
        raptorfactor 5y ago
        CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It still gets regularly updates sure, but it's nearly a decade old and the engine hasn't evolved in that time in a way that would make it comparable to a current-gen game.
        eitland 5y ago
        > CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It is however one of todays most well known games.
        raptorfactor 5y ago
        Sure, but that's not what was up for debate in the comment chain you were responding to. That was specifically about how well it handles "recent" games. Not how well it handles old but still popular games. WoW also runs great under Wine for example afaik. I'm not diminishing the value of games like that running well under Wine, I think it's great. But it's not the same as "recent" games running well. As one of the GPs points out anti-cheat is unfortunately another big hurdle. CS:GO works great because VAC runs in user-mode and Valve go out of their way to specifically detect Wine and adjust behavior as appropriate (I reverse engineered it extensively some years ago). I think EAC has a native Linux client, but many of the big names are still unplayable. If you try to play Valorant, Apex, Siege, Warzone, PUBG, etc. my understanding is they'll barely even launch, let alone allow you to join a multiplayer match.
pjmlp 5y ago
That ship departed in 2000.

stingraycharles 5y ago

Roblox is very popular among children, and having Linux support is a big deal. Consider it the equivalent of “Minecraft finally runs on Linux”.

bemmu 5y ago

Roblox is more than just a game, it’s like a web browser that instead of showing pages anyone can make allows you to join 3D multiplayer hangouts/games anyone can make. 75% of kids aged 9-12 in the US join these hangouts, and I imagine not being able to participate would be a Linux adoption dealbreaker for many.

mrspeaker 5y ago
Yeah, calling it a "game" is underselling it. My nephew and niece were really into Roblox, so I thought I'd be the "cool uncle" and have a go at making something for them in Roblox Studio. I dragged out my macbook (as there was no Linux support) and it was ridiculously easy to make a 3D multiplayer game that millions of people could play instantly (sure, only a handful of their friends played my creation, but still - if you made something good, the audience is there!). It was also a great introduction to my niece on using 3D software - she loved adding tonnes of random stuff and moving it around into weird structures. I've tried to make multiplayer games in the past, and it's a nightmare. Having a giant player base already authenticated, with all the plumbing in place - it's just a really fun environment to develop for. I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for making "more serious" games.
- hhh 5y ago
  As someone not in the target age group, the game Phantom Forces in Roblox is one of the greatest FPS games to date. All of the weapons have very visible stats, no pseudo-stats displayed with bars (that sometimes aren't even accurate.) Newer FPS games are starting to get this right, however. Phantom Forces even had a sponsored event with Disney.
  - 83457 5y ago
    I tried Phantom Forces and got the impression that the main thing going for it was being available in Roblox and a clone of a great game. There are many fps clones in Roblox and PF may be the best of them but I don't think it is comparable in quality to games like CSGO and Valorant.
- 5y ago

speeder 5y ago

Last I tried to run Roblox on wine the problem is Roblox policy officially consider Linux to be cheat software and ban anyone attempting that immediately.

indigodaddy 5y ago
This is addressed in the article
astroanax 5y ago
That doesn't seem to be an issue now, tried it with Grapejuice and didn't get banned. From the Grapejuice Discord, this also seems to be the case for other Roblox on Linux users.

bitfhacker 5y ago

I have 3 kids and all of them play Roblox. In the past I tried to run Roblox with wine but it didn't run. Now, in the laptops of my kids, I can switch to Linux...

taf2 5y ago
So I have wine running on my linux machine in the house so my girls can play the sims… I noticed on the web browser the other day my kids had been searching how to install mods. Interestingly they had gotten pretty far but couldn’t figure it out all the way since all the guides online pointed how to do it in windows… it got me thinking maybe I’m depriving them by having the linux setup… little successes along the way build confidence… it’s made me consider having the games on windows… only reason I went wine in the first place is I could not for the life of me figure out how to get windows to install… unbuntu was a 20 minute process… windows failed with some kind of driver error related to sata controller issues … spent a few nights and decided to just run wine… gonna look back into it thought want them to have the little successes of independence… 12 years old
- simion314 5y ago
  Hi, I can confirm that Sims3 and Sims4 mods work fine under Wine. My suggestion is to teach your children to always read instructions and install the mods one at a time and test. It is easy to install something incorrectly and crash your game.