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Are they really so dangerous? I've generally worked with the rule of thumb: glasses, no dangly bits, don't touch anything, don't use your hand as a machine vice

Are they really so dangerous? I've generally worked with the rule of thumb: glasses, no dangly bits, don't touch anything, don't use your hand as a machine vice, and so far, no injuries. My feeling was that since metalworking machines are usually relatively slow and not that grabby, they were safer than, for example, a circular saw. I mean, that's not a high bar, but nobody is saying that people shouldn't do hobby woodwork.

iancmceachern 5y ago
Yes, they are unbelievable dangerous. They can kill you at 1 rpm, speed doesn't matter. I've heard (and seen myself) many horror stories. Long hair, or anything dangling, can easily get caught in the chuck of a lathe, even of only going a 1 rpm, and pull the operators head into the moving machinery before anyone has time to react. Metal working machines are among the most dangerous equipment one can operate.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I guess from my somewhat small sample of acquaintances, the feeling that woodworkers tend to end up missing bits. Metalworkers tend to have bad hearing, bad eyes, but all of their appendages. Dangly stuff, obviously, is like waving a steak at a bear.
- bsder 5y ago
  > Metal working machines are among the most dangerous equipment one can operate. No, woodworking stuff is FAR more dangerous. The reason for this is twofold: 1) Metalworking almost always involves workholding. Metalworking almost always has a vise attached to your work and the machine. Metalworking almost always has your hands somewhere other than near the sharp bits. A mill has your hands on the dials. A lathe is similar. A drill press has your hands on a handle. With woodworking, your fingers are almost always the motive force and they almost always pass near the cutting edge even if you are using push sticks and sleds. 2) Woodworking machines rotate far faster Radial and circular saws can remove your hand in a blink. Wood lathes often throw or explode the part while your hands are right next to them. Admittedly, the plural of anecdote is not data. However, almost all the woodworking accidents I have seen have been far more problematic than the metalworking accidents I have seen.
ganzuul 5y ago
If you take sandpaper to a part turning on the lathe and make the mistake of closing your hand around it, you can lose your arm. On a drill press a chip can reach out and grab your clothes and pull you in. Heavy parts can come loose and fly through the air. Hardened tools can break and send shrapnel flying like bullets. A hand's width of unspported stickout of a long bar from the back of lathe's spindle bore can turn into a meat tenderizer, spinning too fast for the eye to see. The last thing you heard before hopefully waking up in the hospital was the sound of a helicopter... It's the gotchas that get you. You can do it safely and people do all the time. But mistakes happen, and then you better be lucky or good.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I guess I worry sometimes because my shop is in an old industrial building, and nobody else works there, so I'm always thinking that if I was injured and unconscious, I could definitely die. But then, the problem with machining is it's unavoidable. There's usually no other way to make the part. I'd be interested to look at statistics, but I always have the feeling that the table saw sits basically at the top of the pyramid when it comes to chopping bits off, then it's followed by all the other woodworking stuff (spindle moulder comes to mind), then you get the metalworking stuff.
voakbasda 5y ago
You realize that you just listed a handful of rules of thumbs. All of which would be taught in an introductory shop course, but not everyone pays attention or understands to implications of those rules as they might apply in every scenario. The caution is warranted here. Shop machines literally can flense, main, or kill you. Even at low speeds. I would say everyone should try these things if they 1) find a mentor to help do it safely or 2) read enough in advance to become subject experts, before ever setting foot in the shop. Under no circumstances attempt to learn by blind trial and error.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  I'm a semi self-trained machinist, as in, I had a lot of experience making stuff with hand and power tools, but no experience with machining, so my two cents is: 1. You're not really going to be able to use a machine full stop unless you read a book, watch a bunch of introductory videos, or go to a course. They're not very intuitive. 2. Besides the stuff that's obvious, there are just tons of things that are non obvious. For instance, brass has a habit of grabbing bits then turning into a whirlygig of death. There are just tons of stuff like this ('don't feel around in hydraulics', 'watch out for springs', etc) that you won't really get in an introductory course anyway. 3. Everybody is literally driving drunk where I live. You walk past half-asleep idiots driving gigantic machines all the time. At least with machine tools, you only pay for your own incompetence.
jjk166 5y ago
The first time I was ever in a machine shop, one of the operators didn't clamp down a part with enough force. It was a little steel block approximately 1x1x3. It shot out of the setup across the room at a speed comparable to a baseball pitch. It missed my head by about 6 inches. Had it hit my head, I'd be dead. A circular saw isn't a toy either, but it's pretty hard to accidentally kill someone with one from 20 feet away.

iancmceachern 5y ago

Yes, they are unbelievable dangerous. They can kill you at 1 rpm, speed doesn't matter. I've heard (and seen myself) many horror stories. Long hair, or anything dangling, can easily get caught in the chuck of a lathe, even of only going a 1 rpm, and pull the operators head into the moving machinery before anyone has time to react. Metal working machines are among the most dangerous equipment one can operate.

pasabagi 5y ago
I guess from my somewhat small sample of acquaintances, the feeling that woodworkers tend to end up missing bits. Metalworkers tend to have bad hearing, bad eyes, but all of their appendages. Dangly stuff, obviously, is like waving a steak at a bear.
bsder 5y ago
> Metal working machines are among the most dangerous equipment one can operate. No, woodworking stuff is FAR more dangerous. The reason for this is twofold: 1) Metalworking almost always involves workholding. Metalworking almost always has a vise attached to your work and the machine. Metalworking almost always has your hands somewhere other than near the sharp bits. A mill has your hands on the dials. A lathe is similar. A drill press has your hands on a handle. With woodworking, your fingers are almost always the motive force and they almost always pass near the cutting edge even if you are using push sticks and sleds. 2) Woodworking machines rotate far faster Radial and circular saws can remove your hand in a blink. Wood lathes often throw or explode the part while your hands are right next to them. Admittedly, the plural of anecdote is not data. However, almost all the woodworking accidents I have seen have been far more problematic than the metalworking accidents I have seen.

ganzuul 5y ago

If you take sandpaper to a part turning on the lathe and make the mistake of closing your hand around it, you can lose your arm. On a drill press a chip can reach out and grab your clothes and pull you in. Heavy parts can come loose and fly through the air. Hardened tools can break and send shrapnel flying like bullets. A hand's width of unspported stickout of a long bar from the back of lathe's spindle bore can turn into a meat tenderizer, spinning too fast for the eye to see. The last thing you heard before hopefully waking up in the hospital was the sound of a helicopter... It's the gotchas that get you. You can do it safely and people do all the time. But mistakes happen, and then you better be lucky or good.

pasabagi 5y ago
I guess I worry sometimes because my shop is in an old industrial building, and nobody else works there, so I'm always thinking that if I was injured and unconscious, I could definitely die. But then, the problem with machining is it's unavoidable. There's usually no other way to make the part. I'd be interested to look at statistics, but I always have the feeling that the table saw sits basically at the top of the pyramid when it comes to chopping bits off, then it's followed by all the other woodworking stuff (spindle moulder comes to mind), then you get the metalworking stuff.

voakbasda 5y ago

You realize that you just listed a handful of rules of thumbs. All of which would be taught in an introductory shop course, but not everyone pays attention or understands to implications of those rules as they might apply in every scenario. The caution is warranted here. Shop machines literally can flense, main, or kill you. Even at low speeds. I would say everyone should try these things if they 1) find a mentor to help do it safely or 2) read enough in advance to become subject experts, before ever setting foot in the shop. Under no circumstances attempt to learn by blind trial and error.

pasabagi 5y ago
I'm a semi self-trained machinist, as in, I had a lot of experience making stuff with hand and power tools, but no experience with machining, so my two cents is: 1. You're not really going to be able to use a machine full stop unless you read a book, watch a bunch of introductory videos, or go to a course. They're not very intuitive. 2. Besides the stuff that's obvious, there are just tons of things that are non obvious. For instance, brass has a habit of grabbing bits then turning into a whirlygig of death. There are just tons of stuff like this ('don't feel around in hydraulics', 'watch out for springs', etc) that you won't really get in an introductory course anyway. 3. Everybody is literally driving drunk where I live. You walk past half-asleep idiots driving gigantic machines all the time. At least with machine tools, you only pay for your own incompetence.

jjk166 5y ago

The first time I was ever in a machine shop, one of the operators didn't clamp down a part with enough force. It was a little steel block approximately 1x1x3. It shot out of the setup across the room at a speed comparable to a baseball pitch. It missed my head by about 6 inches. Had it hit my head, I'd be dead. A circular saw isn't a toy either, but it's pretty hard to accidentally kill someone with one from 20 feet away.