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Laudable goals and action points - for which I would vote. Already, if nothing more, raising awareness is a positive outcome of this initiative. However, I g

Laudable goals and action points - for which I would vote. Already, if nothing more, raising awareness is a positive outcome of this initiative. *However*, I guess it is easy to agree that the prescribed policies would face huge political opposition in attempts to implement them. Look at what happened to Bernie's campaign! (Unless, of course, something majeur / extraordinary circumstances - like the Pandemic - are invoked to pass such a policy package in one clean swoop). Being it so, how about considering a simpler, less contentious, parallel alternative - a bypass around the mighty legal loopholes, media & lobby opposition? That would be *the creation of Citizen's Wealth Fund*. Just like Norway's Oil Fund. But instead of oil, the asset would be *the bailed out stocks*. In other words, in the "bailout action", the State buys stock, then the State would keep said stock in the fund. Extendable to 5G auction proceeds, other licenses, etc. best explanation, also longer read, the 208 page book: https://angrynomics.com/ https://angrynomics.com/ https://www.ippr.org/media-item/watch-a-citizens-wealth-fund-explained https://www.ippr.org/media-item/watch-a-citizens-wealth-fund... https://youtu.be/rC9RAylrl0s https://youtu.be/rC9RAylrl0s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund

geofft 5y ago
They face huge political opposition because rich people have the means to create that opposition (through all sorts of mechanisms from bribery on the one extreme to subtly influencing popular media to create the perception that wealth accumulation is a virtue on the other extreme). That means that any policy at all that effectively solves the problem will face opposition - or in other words, if your proposed policy somehow doesn't face opposition, it means the rich families have figured out a loophole in it that lets them keep their money and power. You have to figure out either a way to get this done despite opposition or a way to break their ability to effectively create opposition.
- DrNosferatu 5y ago
  Dear Geofft, I think aiming at a CWF would simply be a more attainable goal. But what course of action do you purpose? Revolution? They're notoriously messy and difficult to implement...
- seibelj 5y ago
  Wealth accumulation, i.e. “savings”, is a virtue. Benjamin Franklin is known for the phrase “a penny saved is a penny earned.” It is extremely common to want to leave a legacy to your kids after you die - this is a natural, human trait.
  - geofft 5y ago
    I don't think "A penny saved is a penny earned" is advocating virtue, just strategy. The phrase predated Ben Franklin; the first written source seems to be George Herbert's 1640 Outlandish Proverbs, which has it in the form "A penny spared is twice got" - a bit clearer in that it's about effectiveness and not the moral value of either saving or earning. It's also got phrases like "Ever since we wear clothes, we know not one another," which is very clearly an observation and not a statement about the virtue of nudity! Herbert does include some quotes that advocate virtue, though, including "Great alms-giving lessens no man's living," "Poor and liberal, rich and covetous," "Wealth is like rheume [a cold]: it falls on the weakest parts," "He is not poor that hath little, but he that desireth much," and "Honor and profit lie not in one sack." Franklin quotes the phrase in a column "Hints for those that would be rich" (https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-02-02-0028 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-02-02-00...), which isn't about earning money and isn't even primarily about savings; it's about not buying unnecessary things on credit and paying interest on it forever. Sound advice, but again, more strategic than moralistic. I also think that it's natural and human to want to leave a legacy to your kids. It is unnatural and inhumane to leave them such a legacy that they don't have to work at all; there's a reason "trust fund kids" are a stereotype. The article talks about inheritances on the orders of billions, richer than even monarchic dynasties of centuries past, which aren't particularly considered exemplars of virtuous resource allocation these days. (Even Queen Elizabeth II has a personal net worth of only half a billion dollars.) That's well beyond a "legacy." Anyway, thank you for providing a perfect example of the actual battle here. So long as people believe the propaganda that giving your children billions of dollars is simply the larger-scale version of the virtue of working an honest job and living frugally, they'll hold on to their power.
    - seibelj 5y ago

Laudable goals and action points - for which I would vote. Already, if nothing more, raising awareness is a positive outcome of this initiative. *However*, I g

geofft 5y ago

They face huge political opposition because rich people have the means to create that opposition (through all sorts of mechanisms from bribery on the one extreme to subtly influencing popular media to create the perception that wealth accumulation is a virtue on the other extreme). That means that any policy at all that effectively solves the problem will face opposition - or in other words, if your proposed policy somehow doesn't face opposition, it means the rich families have figured out a loophole in it that lets them keep their money and power. You have to figure out either a way to get this done despite opposition or a way to break their ability to effectively create opposition.

DrNosferatu 5y ago
Dear Geofft, I think aiming at a CWF would simply be a more attainable goal. But what course of action do you purpose? Revolution? They're notoriously messy and difficult to implement...
seibelj 5y ago
Wealth accumulation, i.e. “savings”, is a virtue. Benjamin Franklin is known for the phrase “a penny saved is a penny earned.” It is extremely common to want to leave a legacy to your kids after you die - this is a natural, human trait.
- geofft 5y ago
  I don't think "A penny saved is a penny earned" is advocating virtue, just strategy. The phrase predated Ben Franklin; the first written source seems to be George Herbert's 1640 Outlandish Proverbs, which has it in the form "A penny spared is twice got" - a bit clearer in that it's about effectiveness and not the moral value of either saving or earning. It's also got phrases like "Ever since we wear clothes, we know not one another," which is very clearly an observation and not a statement about the virtue of nudity! Herbert does include some quotes that advocate virtue, though, including "Great alms-giving lessens no man's living," "Poor and liberal, rich and covetous," "Wealth is like rheume [a cold]: it falls on the weakest parts," "He is not poor that hath little, but he that desireth much," and "Honor and profit lie not in one sack." Franklin quotes the phrase in a column "Hints for those that would be rich" (https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-02-02-0028 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-02-02-00...), which isn't about earning money and isn't even primarily about savings; it's about not buying unnecessary things on credit and paying interest on it forever. Sound advice, but again, more strategic than moralistic. I also think that it's natural and human to want to leave a legacy to your kids. It is unnatural and inhumane to leave them such a legacy that they don't have to work at all; there's a reason "trust fund kids" are a stereotype. The article talks about inheritances on the orders of billions, richer than even monarchic dynasties of centuries past, which aren't particularly considered exemplars of virtuous resource allocation these days. (Even Queen Elizabeth II has a personal net worth of only half a billion dollars.) That's well beyond a "legacy." Anyway, thank you for providing a perfect example of the actual battle here. So long as people believe the propaganda that giving your children billions of dollars is simply the larger-scale version of the virtue of working an honest job and living frugally, they'll hold on to their power.
  - seibelj 5y ago