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English is not my first language and my native language doesn't use Latin script, still all the keyboards that I ever saw supported entering ASCII characters. A

English is not my first language and my native language doesn't use Latin script, still all the keyboards that I ever saw supported entering ASCII characters. As far as I know all the keyboards that are in active use support English layout. We shouldn't dismiss this as "cultural imperialism". Instead we should use this to our advantage. Currently source code written in China or in Russia can be read by developers in India or in the US. This is amazing. Let's not forsake it!

nanis 5y ago
Agreed. Growing up in a country and at a time with personally accessible computers and very little literature, I was able to learn stuff that withstood the test of time and did not subject me to switching costs. Already, differences in menus and keyboard shortcuts make the skills of trained office workers less relevant when they immigrate. We do not need more barriers to trade. Some related thoughts: https://www.nu42.com/2013/04/translation-of-programming-terms-and.html https://www.nu42.com/2013/04/translation-of-programming-term... and https://www.nu42.com/2014/08/replacing-hash-keys-with-values-does.html https://www.nu42.com/2014/08/replacing-hash-keys-with-values... The proponents of translation tend to believe what they themselves or other translators will be clear to people just learning the concepts. That is most often not true. > I am willing to bet the sentence “Çözümü SCALAR bağlamda veri döndüren scalar() fonksiyonunu kullanmaktır” does not make any more sense to a Turkish speaker who speaks no English than “The solution is to use the scalar() function that will create SCALAR context for its parameter.” > Translation and hash-lookup are different things. If you want to convey meaning, you have to have a command of both languages, and the subject matter. Without that, you are only going to add to the word soup. Translating “big event” as “büyük okazyon” helps no one.
benjaminjosephw 5y ago
The availability of alternative commercial keyboards is possibly not the best metric to use to judge actual need/desire. There are a large number of non-ASCII layouts that can be mapped on top of a standard QWERTY[0] which show that ASCII is not a valid assumption for a modern general purpose programming language. The idea that we should all be grateful for the unification that using one language brings is a sentiment that reinforces the idea that this is cultural imperialism. There are definitely benefits to conformity, no doubt, but imposing it unnecessarily is a design decision that should be questioned. Why take away options from people who might value that freedom? [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Keyboard_layouts_for_non-Latin_alphabetic_scripts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Keyboard_layou... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism
- attractivechaos 5y ago
  > There are a large number of non-ASCII layouts that can be mapped on top of a standard QWERTY[0] which show that ASCII is not a valid assumption for a modern general purpose programming language. I have seen multiple "foreign" keyboards. They all have ASCII labeled on each key. Using the QWERTY layout demonstrates the dominance of ASCII, which is a valid assumption that modern programming language can reliably rely on.
- eterevsky 5y ago
  Please lookup in Image Search a Russian keyboard and a Japanese keyboard. What do they have in common? Right, besides the respective alphabets they have QWERTY Latin layout on them. Basically all of the keyboards can be used to input ASCII symbols out of the box. I don't really care whether you call this cultural imperialism or not. What matters is that a whole industry can use the same standard worldwide. It's the same as metric system. We already have to deal with imperial system, imagine how much more painful would it be if every country used its own measurement system or its one calendar.
fortran77 5y ago
Agreed. My first language didn't use latin script--it didn't even read left-to-right. But I'm not offended that programming languages all do use latin script and a constrained character set.

nanis 5y ago

Agreed. Growing up in a country and at a time with personally accessible computers and very little literature, I was able to learn stuff that withstood the test of time and did not subject me to switching costs. Already, differences in menus and keyboard shortcuts make the skills of trained office workers less relevant when they immigrate. We do not need more barriers to trade. Some related thoughts: https://www.nu42.com/2013/04/translation-of-programming-terms-and.html https://www.nu42.com/2013/04/translation-of-programming-term... and https://www.nu42.com/2014/08/replacing-hash-keys-with-values-does.html https://www.nu42.com/2014/08/replacing-hash-keys-with-values... The proponents of translation tend to believe what they themselves or other translators will be clear to people just learning the concepts. That is most often not true. > I am willing to bet the sentence “Çözümü SCALAR bağlamda veri döndüren scalar() fonksiyonunu kullanmaktır” does not make any more sense to a Turkish speaker who speaks no English than “The solution is to use the scalar() function that will create SCALAR context for its parameter.” > Translation and hash-lookup are different things. If you want to convey meaning, you have to have a command of both languages, and the subject matter. Without that, you are only going to add to the word soup. Translating “big event” as “büyük okazyon” helps no one.

benjaminjosephw 5y ago

The availability of alternative commercial keyboards is possibly not the best metric to use to judge actual need/desire. There are a large number of non-ASCII layouts that can be mapped on top of a standard QWERTY[0] which show that ASCII is not a valid assumption for a modern general purpose programming language. The idea that we should all be grateful for the unification that using one language brings is a sentiment that reinforces the idea that this is cultural imperialism. There are definitely benefits to conformity, no doubt, but imposing it unnecessarily is a design decision that should be questioned. Why take away options from people who might value that freedom? [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Keyboard_layouts_for_non-Latin_alphabetic_scripts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Keyboard_layou... [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism

attractivechaos 5y ago
> There are a large number of non-ASCII layouts that can be mapped on top of a standard QWERTY[0] which show that ASCII is not a valid assumption for a modern general purpose programming language. I have seen multiple "foreign" keyboards. They all have ASCII labeled on each key. Using the QWERTY layout demonstrates the dominance of ASCII, which is a valid assumption that modern programming language can reliably rely on.
eterevsky 5y ago
Please lookup in Image Search a Russian keyboard and a Japanese keyboard. What do they have in common? Right, besides the respective alphabets they have QWERTY Latin layout on them. Basically all of the keyboards can be used to input ASCII symbols out of the box. I don't really care whether you call this cultural imperialism or not. What matters is that a whole industry can use the same standard worldwide. It's the same as metric system. We already have to deal with imperial system, imagine how much more painful would it be if every country used its own measurement system or its one calendar.

fortran77 5y ago

Agreed. My first language didn't use latin script--it didn't even read left-to-right. But I'm not offended that programming languages all do use latin script and a constrained character set.