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How does that work when even 10Gbps ethernet is still cost-prohibitive for SOHO applications and "real" 1Gbps+ Wi-Fi just doesn't happen in thick-walled europea

How does that work when even 10Gbps ethernet is still cost-prohibitive for SOHO applications and "real" 1Gbps+ Wi-Fi just doesn't happen in thick-walled european houses...

Aardwolf 5y ago
It requires getting some relatively expensive hardware, and you wouldn't use this wirelessly https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/304268-init7-25gbits-sec.html https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/304268-ini...
Dah00n 5y ago
It should be obvious but it isn't meant for WiFi. I use fibre and cat6 in my house for everything except smartphones.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  > I use fibre and cat6 in my house for everything except smartphones. I assure you that your customer profile is not representative of the vast majority of your ISP's customers.
  - tolien 5y ago
    > I assure you that your customer profile is not representative of the vast majority of your ISP's customers. The top tier is almost always a tiny minority [1] of any ISP's customers but it's convenient marketing and usually has by far the highest margins. It's like arguing Bugatti buyers aren't the majority of Volkswagen Auto Group's customers: it's true but what difference does that make? 1: Virgin Media offers tiers from 100Mbps to 1Gbps but "The average speed across our U.K. broadband base continues to increase and was 186 Mbps at the end of Q1", https://www.libertyglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fixed-Income-Q1-2021-Release.pdf https://www.libertyglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fix...
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      > It's like arguing Bugatti buyers aren't the majority of Volkswagen Auto Group's customers: it's true but what difference does that make? Actually, you raise a good point of discussion: But I'll argue that UK residential ISPs touting their highest-tiers as "proof" they're being competitive, even though only a tiny minority of punters shell out for it, as being self-serving and ultimately against the national interest. With Bugatti: people are buying an asset. You're paying for the quality of the engineering workmanship that goes into the final product - but once you've given your $1-3m over to Herbert Diess you're no-longer an ongoing concern to them, beyond the dealer's servicing fees - and your investment in a single vehicle means little to the road and highways infrastructure where you live - even if your jurisdiction implements vehicle-value-based property tax and road-usage-tax it won't mean much at the end-of-the-day - but with residential broadband it's something else...
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    Not normally no but in this instance it is "representative of the vast majority of my ISP's customers with 1/1gbps connection". I'm convinced that most people who order 1gbps (or 25 for that matter) is aware that WiFi isn't able to provide those speeds most of the time if ever.
gallexme 5y ago
10gbit is just on the border of affordable for IT hobbyist people Lots of data center hardware getting sold in masses on eBay. And copper cables these days also can do 10gbit, but even fiber at home you can get the Transceivers for about 15€ each, and a switch for another 200€used, some old PC as Router with cheap 10gbit card also works wonders
- bserge 5y ago
  The problem here is most people want new. Why? I have no idea. Maybe they're thinking of everyone buying one. I've been looking at making a NAS box and it would cost less than 200 Euros for decent hardware (better than some QNAP, including a 10Gbps fiber adapter and Wifi) and a completely custom aluminum case.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    I hope I'm not taken the wrong way - but in certain geographies technologist salaries/total-comp are such that it costs us more money to search for bargains than it does to plonk down $hundreds for brand-name SMB hardware for our SOHO gear. That is is why we buy new kit instead of used. I could spend 2-3 hours of my time scanning eBay and Craigslist and comparing spreadsheets of compatible equipement and then waiting for USPS mail deliveries (at my $200/hr consulting rate) or I could spent 5-10 minutes on Ubiquiti's online store and be done with it. It's ugly and I dislike it (the thrill of the chase...). But that's capitalism. Frankly I won't be able to "enjoy" this again until I'm after retirement...
    - bserge 5y ago
      That makes sense (and explains a lot, actually). But in that case you're not complaining about the cost of hardware, I think. I was commenting more on people who think it's too expensive but still want new. Since we're on topic, having been born in the land of no opportunities, I've learned to save on everything. And I've learned to build/make anything, quite literally. It's not that hard and it's really satisfying, but sadly time consuming.
  - 5y ago
tinus_hn 5y ago
What part is cost prohibitive? It really doesn’t have to be too expensive to have a modem like device that attaches fiber and a number of (10) gigabit lan ports and fast WiFi. Its an amount of bandwidth that’s difficult to fill but that’ll change.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  Prices for 10Gbps switches are in the hundeds of Euros, compared to the prices for 1Gbps switches - or the type of 4 or 5-port switches embedded in ISP-provided CPE.
  - iptrans 5y ago
    Nah. You can get a 4 port 10G switch for about $100 from a known vendor.
Bayart 5y ago
I have a bunch of WiFi ac and ax devices in the house and they collectively can easily saturate my 1G WAN link. While I don't have a workflow they would warrant 10G, the overhead is getting desirable.
throwaway2037 5y ago
"10Gbps ethernet is still cost-prohibitive" That is old news in 2021. Do you know about <<MikroTik 5-Port Desktop Switch, 1 Gigabit Ethernet Port, 4 SFP+ 10Gbps Ports (CRS305-1G-4S+IN)>>? Amazon sells it for 140 USD. It is legendary on home networking discussion boards. (They have a nice 8 port version also.)
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  For the past, literally 15 years, I've balked at a workgroup switch that cost more than $50. (Granted, since last year I've been a convert to Ubiquiti gear, but that wasn't a valid option when I was a teenager living with my parents, trying to convince my dad on good tech to buy within a reasonable budget)

How does that work when even 10Gbps ethernet is still cost-prohibitive for SOHO applications and "real" 1Gbps+ Wi-Fi just doesn't happen in thick-walled european houses...

Aardwolf 5y ago

It requires getting some relatively expensive hardware, and you wouldn't use this wirelessly https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/304268-init7-25gbits-sec.html https://www.englishforum.ch/tv-internet-telephone/304268-ini...

Dah00n 5y ago

It should be obvious but it isn't meant for WiFi. I use fibre and cat6 in my house for everything except smartphones.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> I use fibre and cat6 in my house for everything except smartphones. I assure you that your customer profile is not representative of the vast majority of your ISP's customers.
- tolien 5y ago
  > I assure you that your customer profile is not representative of the vast majority of your ISP's customers. The top tier is almost always a tiny minority [1] of any ISP's customers but it's convenient marketing and usually has by far the highest margins. It's like arguing Bugatti buyers aren't the majority of Volkswagen Auto Group's customers: it's true but what difference does that make? 1: Virgin Media offers tiers from 100Mbps to 1Gbps but "The average speed across our U.K. broadband base continues to increase and was 186 Mbps at the end of Q1", https://www.libertyglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fixed-Income-Q1-2021-Release.pdf https://www.libertyglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fix...
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    > It's like arguing Bugatti buyers aren't the majority of Volkswagen Auto Group's customers: it's true but what difference does that make? Actually, you raise a good point of discussion: But I'll argue that UK residential ISPs touting their highest-tiers as "proof" they're being competitive, even though only a tiny minority of punters shell out for it, as being self-serving and ultimately against the national interest. With Bugatti: people are buying an asset. You're paying for the quality of the engineering workmanship that goes into the final product - but once you've given your $1-3m over to Herbert Diess you're no-longer an ongoing concern to them, beyond the dealer's servicing fees - and your investment in a single vehicle means little to the road and highways infrastructure where you live - even if your jurisdiction implements vehicle-value-based property tax and road-usage-tax it won't mean much at the end-of-the-day - but with residential broadband it's something else...
- Dah00n 5y ago
  Not normally no but in this instance it is "representative of the vast majority of my ISP's customers with 1/1gbps connection". I'm convinced that most people who order 1gbps (or 25 for that matter) is aware that WiFi isn't able to provide those speeds most of the time if ever.

gallexme 5y ago

10gbit is just on the border of affordable for IT hobbyist people Lots of data center hardware getting sold in masses on eBay. And copper cables these days also can do 10gbit, but even fiber at home you can get the Transceivers for about 15€ each, and a switch for another 200€used, some old PC as Router with cheap 10gbit card also works wonders

bserge 5y ago
The problem here is most people want new. Why? I have no idea. Maybe they're thinking of everyone buying one. I've been looking at making a NAS box and it would cost less than 200 Euros for decent hardware (better than some QNAP, including a 10Gbps fiber adapter and Wifi) and a completely custom aluminum case.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  I hope I'm not taken the wrong way - but in certain geographies technologist salaries/total-comp are such that it costs us more money to search for bargains than it does to plonk down $hundreds for brand-name SMB hardware for our SOHO gear. That is is why we buy new kit instead of used. I could spend 2-3 hours of my time scanning eBay and Craigslist and comparing spreadsheets of compatible equipement and then waiting for USPS mail deliveries (at my $200/hr consulting rate) or I could spent 5-10 minutes on Ubiquiti's online store and be done with it. It's ugly and I dislike it (the thrill of the chase...). But that's capitalism. Frankly I won't be able to "enjoy" this again until I'm after retirement...
  - bserge 5y ago
    That makes sense (and explains a lot, actually). But in that case you're not complaining about the cost of hardware, I think. I was commenting more on people who think it's too expensive but still want new. Since we're on topic, having been born in the land of no opportunities, I've learned to save on everything. And I've learned to build/make anything, quite literally. It's not that hard and it's really satisfying, but sadly time consuming.
- 5y ago

tinus_hn 5y ago

What part is cost prohibitive? It really doesn’t have to be too expensive to have a modem like device that attaches fiber and a number of (10) gigabit lan ports and fast WiFi. Its an amount of bandwidth that’s difficult to fill but that’ll change.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
Prices for 10Gbps switches are in the hundeds of Euros, compared to the prices for 1Gbps switches - or the type of 4 or 5-port switches embedded in ISP-provided CPE.
- iptrans 5y ago
  Nah. You can get a 4 port 10G switch for about $100 from a known vendor.

Bayart 5y ago

I have a bunch of WiFi ac and ax devices in the house and they collectively can easily saturate my 1G WAN link. While I don't have a workflow they would warrant 10G, the overhead is getting desirable.

throwaway2037 5y ago

"10Gbps ethernet is still cost-prohibitive" That is old news in 2021. Do you know about <<MikroTik 5-Port Desktop Switch, 1 Gigabit Ethernet Port, 4 SFP+ 10Gbps Ports (CRS305-1G-4S+IN)>>? Amazon sells it for 140 USD. It is legendary on home networking discussion boards. (They have a nice 8 port version also.)

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
For the past, literally 15 years, I've balked at a workgroup switch that cost more than $50. (Granted, since last year I've been a convert to Ubiquiti gear, but that wasn't a valid option when I was a teenager living with my parents, trying to convince my dad on good tech to buy within a reasonable budget)