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More important, perhaps, is to say what the institution is: > UHRP was founded in 2004 as a project of the Uyghur American Association and became an independen

More important, perhaps, is to say what the institution is: > UHRP was founded in 2004 as a project of the Uyghur American Association and became an independent nonprofit organization in 2016. But that does not by itself mean the source is untrustworthy. There are numerous NGOs in democratic countries that do stellar (and often dangerous) work on things that happen in autocratic regimes. From a quick glance at the methods section, this report seems to be well-researched and robustly documented.

yorwba 5y ago
The report seems to be well-researched, but their definition of "repression" is eyebrow-raising at times: According to reports in Chinese media, on March 1, 2014, a group of eight black-clad, knife-wielding Uyghur men and women stabbed dozens of people to death and injured hundreds of others in the railway station in Kunming, Yunnan province. According to RFA reporting, the group was attempting to flee to Southeast Asia when security blocked their route, resulting in the group’s desperate decision to commit this act of mass violence.[120] By November of that year, the PRC claimed to have broken up a Turkish-led ring providing Uyghurs with fake passports, accusing the Turkish state of funneling Uyghur fighters to Syria (where evidence of TIP activities emerged at the time).[121] It was clear that by this point, China had thoroughly closed off most routes for Uyghur refugees. International media coverage of the events in Kunming also marked a turning point in media representations of Uyghurs, as some outlets uncritically adopted the official characterization of the events as “Uyghur terrorism.”[122] That makes me wonder how many of the other people they include in their count were critically analyzed to reveal that they were really only desperate and definitely not involved in any terrorism at all.
- uniqueuid 5y ago
  It's important to recognize potentially legitimate arrests, yes. But - correct me if I'm wrong - the passage that you're citing is not used to describe repression. The report lists it as the starting point and excuse for repression. So even though said incident may have been a genuine act of terrorism, the report is concerned with subsequent repercussions.
  - yorwba 5y ago
    The passage is two thirds down the page after a long list of people getting arrested, banned from traveling, extradited, having their organizations declared illegal, killed in a raid by the Pakistani military etc., so I don't think it's intended to signify the starting point and excuse for repression. It seems to me like they're saying that the individuals in question shouldn't have been stopped by security (just like in all the prior cases they list) and terrorism was just a pretext. The problem I have with that is that I consider the stabbing to be unambiguously a terrorist attack, so I can't trust their evaluation in other cases of what counts as repression vs. legitimately trying to prevent terrorist attacks. I guess I could dig up their sources to find out in which cases I agree with their assessment, but that kind of defeats the point of having a report conveniently summarizing the data.
    - uniqueuid 5y ago
      You're right, I agree - the framing and wording is completely out of place. Fleeing from repression does not justify such horrible violence. What irks me most is the phrase "resulting in the group’s desperate decision to commit this act of mass violence." I would even argue that mass violence is not something one can commit out of desperation, it requires a frightening committment.
    - xwolfi 5y ago
      It's not to excuse it but to explain it. Here in Hong Kong we got a taste of china kneejerk reaction to violent dissent and it should not be forgotten that things like that have a starting point. The communists are making a terrible strategic mistake in Xinjiang by creating a shared oppression but they did it following a series of events that is important to remember. For instance I d strongly discourage mass murder in Hong Kong as a way to express discontent since China would be ready to intern us all in singing camps where we d be beaten into singing the glory of the motherland.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  These are guys are Washington professionals. I don't have any concrete insights on the situation in Xinjiang. However as far as I can tell it is a lot more stable there than was 10-15 years where you had the Xinjiang riots and the series of terrorist attacks that followed. What has changed though is the US-China relationship which has gone from corporation, including in military matters in the Xinjiang/Afghanisation border region, into a full-on propaganda war. Also notice the use of the term "East Turkistan" which generally is a designation that is used by people who want a breakup of China into multiple smaller nations. Needless to say this is an aggresive stance.
  - Craighead 5y ago
    What an amazing propagandist you are, point by point using fallacies to attempt to paint poor China as the victim in all of this.

yorwba 5y ago

The report seems to be well-researched, but their definition of "repression" is eyebrow-raising at times: According to reports in Chinese media, on March 1, 2014, a group of eight black-clad, knife-wielding Uyghur men and women stabbed dozens of people to death and injured hundreds of others in the railway station in Kunming, Yunnan province. According to RFA reporting, the group was attempting to flee to Southeast Asia when security blocked their route, resulting in the group’s desperate decision to commit this act of mass violence.[120] By November of that year, the PRC claimed to have broken up a Turkish-led ring providing Uyghurs with fake passports, accusing the Turkish state of funneling Uyghur fighters to Syria (where evidence of TIP activities emerged at the time).[121] It was clear that by this point, China had thoroughly closed off most routes for Uyghur refugees. International media coverage of the events in Kunming also marked a turning point in media representations of Uyghurs, as some outlets uncritically adopted the official characterization of the events as “Uyghur terrorism.”[122] That makes me wonder how many of the other people they include in their count were critically analyzed to reveal that they were really only desperate and definitely not involved in any terrorism at all.

uniqueuid 5y ago
It's important to recognize potentially legitimate arrests, yes. But - correct me if I'm wrong - the passage that you're citing is not used to describe repression. The report lists it as the starting point and excuse for repression. So even though said incident may have been a genuine act of terrorism, the report is concerned with subsequent repercussions.
- yorwba 5y ago
  The passage is two thirds down the page after a long list of people getting arrested, banned from traveling, extradited, having their organizations declared illegal, killed in a raid by the Pakistani military etc., so I don't think it's intended to signify the starting point and excuse for repression. It seems to me like they're saying that the individuals in question shouldn't have been stopped by security (just like in all the prior cases they list) and terrorism was just a pretext. The problem I have with that is that I consider the stabbing to be unambiguously a terrorist attack, so I can't trust their evaluation in other cases of what counts as repression vs. legitimately trying to prevent terrorist attacks. I guess I could dig up their sources to find out in which cases I agree with their assessment, but that kind of defeats the point of having a report conveniently summarizing the data.
  - uniqueuid 5y ago
    You're right, I agree - the framing and wording is completely out of place. Fleeing from repression does not justify such horrible violence. What irks me most is the phrase "resulting in the group’s desperate decision to commit this act of mass violence." I would even argue that mass violence is not something one can commit out of desperation, it requires a frightening committment.
  - xwolfi 5y ago
    It's not to excuse it but to explain it. Here in Hong Kong we got a taste of china kneejerk reaction to violent dissent and it should not be forgotten that things like that have a starting point. The communists are making a terrible strategic mistake in Xinjiang by creating a shared oppression but they did it following a series of events that is important to remember. For instance I d strongly discourage mass murder in Hong Kong as a way to express discontent since China would be ready to intern us all in singing camps where we d be beaten into singing the glory of the motherland.
throwaway4good 5y ago
These are guys are Washington professionals. I don't have any concrete insights on the situation in Xinjiang. However as far as I can tell it is a lot more stable there than was 10-15 years where you had the Xinjiang riots and the series of terrorist attacks that followed. What has changed though is the US-China relationship which has gone from corporation, including in military matters in the Xinjiang/Afghanisation border region, into a full-on propaganda war. Also notice the use of the term "East Turkistan" which generally is a designation that is used by people who want a breakup of China into multiple smaller nations. Needless to say this is an aggresive stance.
- Craighead 5y ago
  What an amazing propagandist you are, point by point using fallacies to attempt to paint poor China as the victim in all of this.