6 ms·

San Francisco will permanently cap food delivery fees for apps like DoorDash

18 points by dsr12 5y ago

Jemaclus 5y ago
One thing that the San Francisco cap will do is greatly benefit those who are disabled or otherwise unable to pick up. There is a large segment of the population that simply cannot do what I do and go pick it up. (See my anecdote below.) They're house-bound or elderly or disabled or really just have no practical way to get food without delivery. And "services" like DoorDash and UberEats and GrubHub all affect those people in pretty profound ways, and this puts a disproportionate burden on that cohort of customers out there. The rest of us can save money by taking different actions, but for those who rely on delivery for food, they're just shit outta luck. And for those people--and even the rest of us!!--the fees are getting out of control. Like, I'll routinely order $40 worth of pizza or sushi and somehow my total is $63 not including a tip. Fees of more than 50% for a delivery are just bonkers and unacceptable. This is easily verifiable by just switching the same order from Delivery to Pick Up, if anyone is interested. In an attempt to "fix" this, I signed up for the Door Pass subscription or whatever it's called, and instead of making me feel better about ordering, it felt like the "miscellaneous fees" went up to compensate for the delivery fees that were allegedly gone. I felt like maybe I was saving like 5%, but 5% of $63 is only $3 so I'm still paying $60 for $40 of food... That's still bonkers. I didn't collect any data on this, to be totally honest, but I felt like I was getting ripped off every time I ordered food. After about 2 months I decided to cancel it, and the entire experience of using DoorDash was so traumatic that I wound up just choosing Pick Up every time and then going to pick it up from the restaurant. It was often faster than delivery, and definitely cheaper.. And then I realized that I was still supporting a company that had [what appeared to me to be] scummy practices, so I just stopped using DoorDash altogether. Now I just go to the company's websites, if they have one, and I use that to order. Most of them allow pickup directly without using something like DoorDash. (Note: I don't mean to pick on DoorDash specifically, because all of the delivery sites do the same thing, but this article is specifically about DoorDash, so I'm relating my experience with that.)
- kmlx 5y ago
  > There is a large segment of the population that simply cannot do what I do and go pick it up. (See my anecdote below.) They're house-bound or elderly or disabled or really just have no practical way to get food without delivery. how big is this segment?
  - lm28469 5y ago
    The real question is how did these people survive until doordash came to exist. If doordash became a public service entity you have bigger problems than fees...
    - Jemaclus 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure you're not suggesting that DoorDash, et al, invented the food delivery industry out of whole cloth... The point wasn't that delivery fees exist, but that they seem to be increasing to the point where a municipal government felt the need to step in and do something about it. For those who are housebound or otherwise unable to pick up food from restaurants on their own, these increased fees are a high burden that is inescapable. Granted, they could simply not order food, but that then puts a different kind of burden (i.e., quality of life) on those folks. I'm not suggesting DoorDash, et al, need to change their model, but merely pointing out that this burden affects a certain segment of the population differently than the rest.
  - Jemaclus 5y ago
    I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. I make no guarantees as to the accuracy of this, but according to this article [1], there are approximately 4 million house-bound Americans. This is effectively the lower-bound of the people who would almost certainly have to order delivery in order to eat food from a restaurant. Since they are house-bound, they literally cannot go pick up their food. There are other non-housebound people that would also rely on delivery for restaurant food, such as those without cars or those that are sick or (in the age of COVID) quarantining. I'm not saying that DoorDash needs to change their model or anything to support these people, I'm just pointing out that while the rest of us have choices when it comes to how to get food from a restaurant, this cohort do not have much of a choice at all and therefore the fees from companies like DoorDash affect them quite heavily. It's effectively a housebound tax. [1] https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2014.1008 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2014....
0xy 5y ago
DoorDash and others already pad food prices in addition to service fees. This will just make them add $3 to the itemized cost of a pizza while lowering the delivery fee, fixing nothing.
- maccam94 5y ago
  Actually I think restaurants were doing that in some cases to make up for the cut Doordash was taking from them, so now instead the cost should be reflected in the fees to user (theoretically)
aliasEli 5y ago
Probably the best way to solve this is to make it transparent to the customer how much they are paying to the restaurant and how much they are paying to the delivery service.
LarryEt 5y ago
This seems ridiculous. If it cost too much then just pick it up yourself. You can leave the house. You aren't doing anything that import. The straw man of amputees doesn't cut it.
GhostVII 5y ago
Why is San Francisco's solution to everything to just throw in more random regulations? If delivery fees for a particular service are too high, another service can undercut them. It's a pretty crowded space. If people want to pay exorbant amounts for delivery they should be able to make the informed choice to do so. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it should be regulated out of existence. Regardless in this case all the delivery companies will do is adjust their pricing so it costs the same amount while lowering the "delivery fee". Or maybe just stop offering delivery in less profitable cases.
- Larrikin 5y ago
  >Or maybe just stop offering delivery in less profitable cases With how ridiculous the fees are Id prefer this personally. Delivery once upon a time was free for pizza or a few dollars tops if you were outside a very tight delivery zone and the delivery person was directly employed through the restaurant so they made a decent wage for a restaurant gig. Over seas I'd constantly see McDonald scooters zipping around Dubai and Tokyo so it's possible to do delivery even when the person doesn't bring their own car. Door dash does it's best to hide how far a place is from you but happily increase the fees so you can get a luke warm sandwich and cold fries from the restaurant across town instead of the one a few blocks away with the same name that isn't currently delivering. During a pandemic where everyone was basically forced inside these companies were barely profitable so it's not even a business model that really works. Door Dash did their best to race to an IPO before the had the rug pulled under them like We work. I'd rather have the middleman die out and individual restaurants go back to offering delivery.
niij 5y ago
Leave it to SF to try to regulate a luxury like individual food delivery. An individual has to go and wait on your specific order at a restaurant and take it to your door, that's less efficient than a normal pizza delivery. It's no wonder they charge a lot for this.

18 points by dsr12 5y ago

One thing that the San Francisco cap will do is greatly benefit those who are disabled or otherwise unable to pick up. There is a large segment of the population that simply cannot do what I do and go pick it up. (See my anecdote below.) They're house-bound or elderly or disabled or really just have no practical way to get food without delivery. And "services" like DoorDash and UberEats and GrubHub all affect those people in pretty profound ways, and this puts a disproportionate burden on that cohort of customers out there. The rest of us can save money by taking different actions, but for those who rely on delivery for food, they're just shit outta luck. And for those people--and even the rest of us!!--the fees are getting out of control. Like, I'll routinely order $40 worth of pizza or sushi and somehow my total is $63 not including a tip. Fees of more than 50% for a delivery are just bonkers and unacceptable. This is easily verifiable by just switching the same order from Delivery to Pick Up, if anyone is interested. In an attempt to "fix" this, I signed up for the Door Pass subscription or whatever it's called, and instead of making me feel better about ordering, it felt like the "miscellaneous fees" went up to compensate for the delivery fees that were allegedly gone. I felt like maybe I was saving like 5%, but 5% of $63 is only $3 so I'm still paying $60 for $40 of food... That's still bonkers. I didn't collect any data on this, to be totally honest, but I felt like I was getting ripped off every time I ordered food. After about 2 months I decided to cancel it, and the entire experience of using DoorDash was so traumatic that I wound up just choosing Pick Up every time and then going to pick it up from the restaurant. It was often faster than delivery, and definitely cheaper.. And then I realized that I was still supporting a company that had [what appeared to me to be] scummy practices, so I just stopped using DoorDash altogether. Now I just go to the company's websites, if they have one, and I use that to order. Most of them allow pickup directly without using something like DoorDash. (Note: I don't mean to pick on DoorDash specifically, because all of the delivery sites do the same thing, but this article is specifically about DoorDash, so I'm relating my experience with that.)

kmlx 5y ago
> There is a large segment of the population that simply cannot do what I do and go pick it up. (See my anecdote below.) They're house-bound or elderly or disabled or really just have no practical way to get food without delivery. how big is this segment?
- lm28469 5y ago
  The real question is how did these people survive until doordash came to exist. If doordash became a public service entity you have bigger problems than fees...
  - Jemaclus 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure you're not suggesting that DoorDash, et al, invented the food delivery industry out of whole cloth... The point wasn't that delivery fees exist, but that they seem to be increasing to the point where a municipal government felt the need to step in and do something about it. For those who are housebound or otherwise unable to pick up food from restaurants on their own, these increased fees are a high burden that is inescapable. Granted, they could simply not order food, but that then puts a different kind of burden (i.e., quality of life) on those folks. I'm not suggesting DoorDash, et al, need to change their model, but merely pointing out that this burden affects a certain segment of the population differently than the rest.
- Jemaclus 5y ago
  I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. I make no guarantees as to the accuracy of this, but according to this article [1], there are approximately 4 million house-bound Americans. This is effectively the lower-bound of the people who would almost certainly have to order delivery in order to eat food from a restaurant. Since they are house-bound, they literally cannot go pick up their food. There are other non-housebound people that would also rely on delivery for restaurant food, such as those without cars or those that are sick or (in the age of COVID) quarantining. I'm not saying that DoorDash needs to change their model or anything to support these people, I'm just pointing out that while the rest of us have choices when it comes to how to get food from a restaurant, this cohort do not have much of a choice at all and therefore the fees from companies like DoorDash affect them quite heavily. It's effectively a housebound tax. [1] https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2014.1008 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2014....

0xy 5y ago

DoorDash and others already pad food prices in addition to service fees. This will just make them add $3 to the itemized cost of a pizza while lowering the delivery fee, fixing nothing.

maccam94 5y ago
Actually I think restaurants were doing that in some cases to make up for the cut Doordash was taking from them, so now instead the cost should be reflected in the fees to user (theoretically)

aliasEli 5y ago

Probably the best way to solve this is to make it transparent to the customer how much they are paying to the restaurant and how much they are paying to the delivery service.

LarryEt 5y ago

This seems ridiculous. If it cost too much then just pick it up yourself. You can leave the house. You aren't doing anything that import. The straw man of amputees doesn't cut it.

GhostVII 5y ago

Why is San Francisco's solution to everything to just throw in more random regulations? If delivery fees for a particular service are too high, another service can undercut them. It's a pretty crowded space. If people want to pay exorbant amounts for delivery they should be able to make the informed choice to do so. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it should be regulated out of existence. Regardless in this case all the delivery companies will do is adjust their pricing so it costs the same amount while lowering the "delivery fee". Or maybe just stop offering delivery in less profitable cases.

Larrikin 5y ago
>Or maybe just stop offering delivery in less profitable cases With how ridiculous the fees are Id prefer this personally. Delivery once upon a time was free for pizza or a few dollars tops if you were outside a very tight delivery zone and the delivery person was directly employed through the restaurant so they made a decent wage for a restaurant gig. Over seas I'd constantly see McDonald scooters zipping around Dubai and Tokyo so it's possible to do delivery even when the person doesn't bring their own car. Door dash does it's best to hide how far a place is from you but happily increase the fees so you can get a luke warm sandwich and cold fries from the restaurant across town instead of the one a few blocks away with the same name that isn't currently delivering. During a pandemic where everyone was basically forced inside these companies were barely profitable so it's not even a business model that really works. Door Dash did their best to race to an IPO before the had the rug pulled under them like We work. I'd rather have the middleman die out and individual restaurants go back to offering delivery.

niij 5y ago

Leave it to SF to try to regulate a luxury like individual food delivery. An individual has to go and wait on your specific order at a restaurant and take it to your door, that's less efficient than a normal pizza delivery. It's no wonder they charge a lot for this.