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Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. I would like

by gre 5y ago

Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. I would like to see a writeup of what they get wrong because their podcast Moderate Rebels [1] is very informative and well-researched. [1] https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels

tablespoon 5y ago
> Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. IIRC, it was mainly banned because "there is consensus that The Grayzone publishes false or fabricated information" (as the summary states). I believe this was one of the examples: https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-to-feed-fake-news https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-t... (Grayzone presenting the forced confession of an anti-regime activist as legitimate). Here's another about Max Blumenthal himself fabricating a quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/did-israel-train-american-interrogators-in-torture-updated/249630/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/di.... There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it. I think any news agency is like this. The strength of journalist freedom is that all such different news agencies can present their facts. > disinformation I am pretty sure everyone believed their information and don't want to verify them thoroughly. I mean, even US government does want to verify the so-called evidences of WMD in Iraq...
- gre 5y ago
  The second article is ten years old and reads like a "he said/she said" and the payoff is pretty underwhelming. The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. I am having trouble following the Nicaragua article as it is heavy on details. I know that one of the grayzone reporters actually lives in Nicaragua so I value their reporting more than a journalist based somewhere else. And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Radio Sputnik has some great shows like By Any Means Necessary. By Any Means Necessary: https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. These articles might be more up your alley: https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authoritarianism-no-to-yellow-peril/ https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authori... https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-i... Edit: here's another good (but dead) sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773. seppin, if you're reading this, you're shadowbanned and very few people will be able to read your stuff.
    - gre 5y ago
      Thanks for the articles, I'll read them tomorrow.
  - seppin 5y ago
    > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist No it's not. They have no problem with the imperialism of China or Russia or Iran. They call themselves "anti-imperialist" the way Trump would call someone else a liar, to get out in front of the accusation before someone (rightfully) labels them as such. > And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Propaganda. The word you are looking for is propaganda. Do pick up a history book and read the difference between, say Radio Free Europe (which is US funded) and the current attacks on anyone willing to expose Russian war crimes in Syria for example, funded of course by the Russian government. Don't allow yourself to be used by a foreign state, just because your politics match up.

by gre 5y ago

tablespoon 5y ago

> Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. IIRC, it was mainly banned because "there is consensus that The Grayzone publishes false or fabricated information" (as the summary states). I believe this was one of the examples: https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-to-feed-fake-news https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-t... (Grayzone presenting the forced confession of an anti-regime activist as legitimate). Here's another about Max Blumenthal himself fabricating a quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/did-israel-train-american-interrogators-in-torture-updated/249630/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/di.... There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it.

justicezyx 5y ago
> There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it. I think any news agency is like this. The strength of journalist freedom is that all such different news agencies can present their facts. > disinformation I am pretty sure everyone believed their information and don't want to verify them thoroughly. I mean, even US government does want to verify the so-called evidences of WMD in Iraq...
gre 5y ago
The second article is ten years old and reads like a "he said/she said" and the payoff is pretty underwhelming. The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. I am having trouble following the Nicaragua article as it is heavy on details. I know that one of the grayzone reporters actually lives in Nicaragua so I value their reporting more than a journalist based somewhere else. And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Radio Sputnik has some great shows like By Any Means Necessary. By Any Means Necessary: https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. These articles might be more up your alley: https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authoritarianism-no-to-yellow-peril/ https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authori... https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-i... Edit: here's another good (but dead) sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773. seppin, if you're reading this, you're shadowbanned and very few people will be able to read your stuff.
  - gre 5y ago
    Thanks for the articles, I'll read them tomorrow.
- seppin 5y ago
  > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist No it's not. They have no problem with the imperialism of China or Russia or Iran. They call themselves "anti-imperialist" the way Trump would call someone else a liar, to get out in front of the accusation before someone (rightfully) labels them as such. > And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Propaganda. The word you are looking for is propaganda. Do pick up a history book and read the difference between, say Radio Free Europe (which is US funded) and the current attacks on anyone willing to expose Russian war crimes in Syria for example, funded of course by the Russian government. Don't allow yourself to be used by a foreign state, just because your politics match up.