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Just to echo this dead comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27647592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27647592 > But I assume it was Adrian Zenz w

Just to echo this dead comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27647592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27647592 > But I assume it was Adrian Zenz who was throughly discredited in [1] Zenz isn't discredited, it's just the PRC propaganda apparatus is trying its hardest to smear him as part of their coverup. Also thegrayzone.com is so unreliable that it was banned from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#The_Grayzone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Per.... > Grayzone has no connection with CCP. But it's the kind of outlet that would echo it: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3127611/china-based-foreigners-defending-beijing-xinjiang-genocide https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3127611/chi...: > Blumenthal’s website [The Grayzone] has been accused of whitewashing the crimes of authoritarian countries, from Nicolas Maduro’s Venezuela to Bashar al-Assad’s Syria, while failing to highlight flaws in regimes that are staunchly opposed to US foreign policy. > And TBH, I dont think Zenz should be treated as authority in the first place. This guy has not set foot on Xinjiang in his lifetime... Why would that matter? All of our authorities on Ancient Rome never set foot in the Roman Empire.

gre 5y ago
Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. I would like to see a writeup of what they get wrong because their podcast Moderate Rebels [1] is very informative and well-researched. [1] https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. IIRC, it was mainly banned because "there is consensus that The Grayzone publishes false or fabricated information" (as the summary states). I believe this was one of the examples: https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-to-feed-fake-news https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-t... (Grayzone presenting the forced confession of an anti-regime activist as legitimate). Here's another about Max Blumenthal himself fabricating a quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/did-israel-train-american-interrogators-in-torture-updated/249630/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/di.... There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    > There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it. I think any news agency is like this. The strength of journalist freedom is that all such different news agencies can present their facts. > disinformation I am pretty sure everyone believed their information and don't want to verify them thoroughly. I mean, even US government does want to verify the so-called evidences of WMD in Iraq...
  - gre 5y ago
    The second article is ten years old and reads like a "he said/she said" and the payoff is pretty underwhelming. The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. I am having trouble following the Nicaragua article as it is heavy on details. I know that one of the grayzone reporters actually lives in Nicaragua so I value their reporting more than a journalist based somewhere else. And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Radio Sputnik has some great shows like By Any Means Necessary. By Any Means Necessary: https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. These articles might be more up your alley: https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authoritarianism-no-to-yellow-peril/ https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authori... https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-i... Edit: here's another good (but dead) sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773. seppin, if you're reading this, you're shadowbanned and very few people will be able to read your stuff.
justicezyx 5y ago
> Why would that matter? All of our authorities on Ancient Rome never set foot in the Roman Empire. LMAO What kind of logic is this? Roman expert can look at fossils, an expert on genocide research has no fossils, how can one claim that without ever set foot on the genocide site... Does China automatically triggered some kind of emotional outburst that shut down reasoning instantly?...
- seppin 5y ago
  Are you defending the Chinese government because you are ethnically Chinese? Just a wild guess.

gre 5y ago

Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. I would like to see a writeup of what they get wrong because their podcast Moderate Rebels [1] is very informative and well-researched. [1] https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels https://soundcloud.com/moderaterebels

tablespoon 5y ago
> Can you link some more sources about the gray zone? Being banned from Wikipedia just makes sense because they are a blog and not a primary source. IIRC, it was mainly banned because "there is consensus that The Grayzone publishes false or fabricated information" (as the summary states). I believe this was one of the examples: https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-to-feed-fake-news https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-nicaragua-torture-is-used-t... (Grayzone presenting the forced confession of an anti-regime activist as legitimate). Here's another about Max Blumenthal himself fabricating a quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/did-israel-train-american-interrogators-in-torture-updated/249630/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/di.... There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > There were questions about its editorial oversight, but those were secondary. Basically it's one of those sites, like RT, that has a political position and has little problem with pushing disinformation to support it. I think any news agency is like this. The strength of journalist freedom is that all such different news agencies can present their facts. > disinformation I am pretty sure everyone believed their information and don't want to verify them thoroughly. I mean, even US government does want to verify the so-called evidences of WMD in Iraq...
- gre 5y ago
  The second article is ten years old and reads like a "he said/she said" and the payoff is pretty underwhelming. The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. I am having trouble following the Nicaragua article as it is heavy on details. I know that one of the grayzone reporters actually lives in Nicaragua so I value their reporting more than a journalist based somewhere else. And huge thanks to Russia for funding some media critical of the US. Radio Sputnik has some great shows like By Any Means Necessary. By Any Means Necessary: https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed https://www.spreaker.com/show/1843722/episodes/feed
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > The political position of the grayzone is anti-imperialist which is an insightful way to view the US and its actions in central and south america for the past few decades. These articles might be more up your alley: https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authoritarianism-no-to-yellow-peril/ https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/no-to-chinese-authori... https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/against-the-grayzone-slanders/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-i... Edit: here's another good (but dead) sibling comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648773. seppin, if you're reading this, you're shadowbanned and very few people will be able to read your stuff.

justicezyx 5y ago

> Why would that matter? All of our authorities on Ancient Rome never set foot in the Roman Empire. LMAO What kind of logic is this? Roman expert can look at fossils, an expert on genocide research has no fossils, how can one claim that without ever set foot on the genocide site... Does China automatically triggered some kind of emotional outburst that shut down reasoning instantly?...

seppin 5y ago
Are you defending the Chinese government because you are ethnically Chinese? Just a wild guess.