5 ms·

I doubt this was YouTube policy, or that it was driven from the top. If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. This is more likely mass reporting of such content

by jeswin 5y ago

I doubt this was YouTube policy, or that it was driven from the top. If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. This is more likely mass reporting of such content (perhaps organized by State apparatus), exploiting the automated flagging algorithm. In any case, I hope Google takes a stand now.

2939223 5y ago
It doesn't require top-down capitulation to the CCP. Much cheaper to infiltrate from the bottom-up. How heavily vetted are those filling the ranks of YouTube's Community Standards teams?
- mylons 5y ago
  i witnessed the hiring of CCP sympathizers at Twitch. it’s certainly happening at youtube
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    Care to elaborate any more on the Twitch situation? This is certainly an alarming inditement, as I was not aware of Twitch being big or eyeing the China market.
- dang 5y ago
  Since it looks like you've created this account just do to political battle on HN, I'm banning it. We ban such accounts because they're not compatible with the mandate of the site. No, it has nothing to do with which particular politics or ideology you're battling for...we really don't care. We just want to have an internet forum that doesn't destroy itself. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sneak 5y ago
Google wants back in to China, antagonizing the CCP is not on their agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) > The Dragonfly project was an Internet search engine prototype created by Google that was designed to be compatible with China's state censorship provisions.[1][2][3] The public learned of Dragonfly's existence in August 2018, when The Intercept leaked an internal memo written by a Google employee about the project.[4][5] In December 2018, Dragonfly was reported to have "effectively been shut down" after a clash with members of the privacy team within Google.[6] However, according to employees, work on Dragonfly was still continuing as of March 2019, with some 100 people still allocated to it.[7] > In July 2019, Google announced that work on Dragonfly had been terminated.[8] This project even included a weather widget that took the AQI from a special government server in Beijing instead of the usual sources, so Google would be disseminating the state lies about air quality. Google engineers in the US worked on this, even after Google claimed to have shut down the project.
- draw_down 5y ago
  So, your evidence that Google wants into China is that their project for entry into China has been terminated. Alrighty.
roenxi 5y ago
> If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. What would there be to leak? Google has taken a very activist stance on moderating their content (probably driven in part by global pressure from a large range of governments). They are actively enforcing their views of what is and isn't true as has been a hot-button political topic through the Coronavirus pandemic. There wouldn't be anything to leak even if they took a more invasive approach and started taking the Chinese government's word for who is and isn't a terrorist organisation. It is reasonable to treat the Chinese government as a source of authoritative truth, even if the average American doesn't trust them. Just enforcing a PII policy is nothing compared to what is possible here.
- jeswin 5y ago
  > It is reasonable to treat the Chinese government as a source of authoritative truth, even if the average American doesn't trust them. Mistrust of the CCP isn't strictly limited to "average Americans". Why should anyone trust them, given that they don't have anything close to a free press or opposition?
  - roenxi 5y ago
    That is a reasonable position. But "The government are authority figures and I trust authority" is also a reasonable position (and quite common). There are a lot of people out there who trust authority - who can say that YouTube doesn't employ them? Jobs censoring minority views are going to attract those people.
    - andrey_utkin 5y ago
      > "The government are authority figures and I trust authority" is also a reasonable position (and quite common). No.
mylons 5y ago
how is invoking “the algorithm,” a defense? we want algorithmic censors, now?
- jldugger 5y ago
  It's not a defense but an explanation. OP asked why google cared, and the answer is 'they likely don't and likely took no special actions.' Algorithmic censors exist pretty much anywhere you or I can publish information on someone else's domain name; even HN has a report button that feeds into algorthmic hiding of posts. All this shows that the algorithm is not particularly robust to state sponsored manipulations; the same way internet polling in the past decades were not particularly robust to 4chan.
lobocinza 5y ago
True but will they take a stand? Algorithms are an excuse to wash hands.

by jeswin 5y ago

2939223 5y ago

It doesn't require top-down capitulation to the CCP. Much cheaper to infiltrate from the bottom-up. How heavily vetted are those filling the ranks of YouTube's Community Standards teams?

mylons 5y ago
i witnessed the hiring of CCP sympathizers at Twitch. it’s certainly happening at youtube
- jimmydorry 5y ago
  Care to elaborate any more on the Twitch situation? This is certainly an alarming inditement, as I was not aware of Twitch being big or eyeing the China market.
dang 5y ago
Since it looks like you've created this account just do to political battle on HN, I'm banning it. We ban such accounts because they're not compatible with the mandate of the site. No, it has nothing to do with which particular politics or ideology you're battling for...we really don't care. We just want to have an internet forum that doesn't destroy itself. Please don't create accounts to break HN's guidelines with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sneak 5y ago

Google wants back in to China, antagonizing the CCP is not on their agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(search_engine) > The Dragonfly project was an Internet search engine prototype created by Google that was designed to be compatible with China's state censorship provisions.[1][2][3] The public learned of Dragonfly's existence in August 2018, when The Intercept leaked an internal memo written by a Google employee about the project.[4][5] In December 2018, Dragonfly was reported to have "effectively been shut down" after a clash with members of the privacy team within Google.[6] However, according to employees, work on Dragonfly was still continuing as of March 2019, with some 100 people still allocated to it.[7] > In July 2019, Google announced that work on Dragonfly had been terminated.[8] This project even included a weather widget that took the AQI from a special government server in Beijing instead of the usual sources, so Google would be disseminating the state lies about air quality. Google engineers in the US worked on this, even after Google claimed to have shut down the project.

draw_down 5y ago
So, your evidence that Google wants into China is that their project for entry into China has been terminated. Alrighty.

roenxi 5y ago

> If it was, we'd have seen a few leaks. What would there be to leak? Google has taken a very activist stance on moderating their content (probably driven in part by global pressure from a large range of governments). They are actively enforcing their views of what is and isn't true as has been a hot-button political topic through the Coronavirus pandemic. There wouldn't be anything to leak even if they took a more invasive approach and started taking the Chinese government's word for who is and isn't a terrorist organisation. It is reasonable to treat the Chinese government as a source of authoritative truth, even if the average American doesn't trust them. Just enforcing a PII policy is nothing compared to what is possible here.

jeswin 5y ago
> It is reasonable to treat the Chinese government as a source of authoritative truth, even if the average American doesn't trust them. Mistrust of the CCP isn't strictly limited to "average Americans". Why should anyone trust them, given that they don't have anything close to a free press or opposition?
- roenxi 5y ago
  That is a reasonable position. But "The government are authority figures and I trust authority" is also a reasonable position (and quite common). There are a lot of people out there who trust authority - who can say that YouTube doesn't employ them? Jobs censoring minority views are going to attract those people.
  - andrey_utkin 5y ago
    > "The government are authority figures and I trust authority" is also a reasonable position (and quite common). No.

mylons 5y ago

how is invoking “the algorithm,” a defense? we want algorithmic censors, now?

jldugger 5y ago
It's not a defense but an explanation. OP asked why google cared, and the answer is 'they likely don't and likely took no special actions.' Algorithmic censors exist pretty much anywhere you or I can publish information on someone else's domain name; even HN has a report button that feeds into algorthmic hiding of posts. All this shows that the algorithm is not particularly robust to state sponsored manipulations; the same way internet polling in the past decades were not particularly robust to 4chan.

lobocinza 5y ago

True but will they take a stand? Algorithms are an excuse to wash hands.