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Fun fact, all CNC machines sold in the United States with more than 5 axes of travel have to be registered with the ATF and have a permanently attached GPS trac

Fun fact, all CNC machines sold in the United States with more than 5 axes of travel have to be registered with the ATF and have a permanently attached GPS tracking unit. This is even true if you have zero intention of using your CNC to manufacture anything reminiscent of a firearm or firearm component. This is why it's common to see 4.5 axis CNC machines or a plethora of "upgrades" that grant 5 axis capability post purchase.

r3trohack3r 5y ago
Fascinating. I searched “ATF register 5 axis cnc” and came up dry. Do you have a reference?
- ff-- 5y ago
  That's not true. Machines with enough axes to be used in firearm or aerospace machining are subject to export controls, though.
  - Turing_Machine 5y ago
    You can make firearms with bog-standard lathes and milling machines.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      Shhh.
  - throwaway2048 5y ago
    you don't need a 5 axis milling machine to build a firearm, even a modern one like an M4
canadianfella 5y ago
I don’t believe you.
GravitasFailure 5y ago
I believe you're thinking of the GPS/Gyro locks that certain high end Japanese CNC machines have, and the ITAR compliance issues many CNC machines are subject to for export. The locks were implemented because somehow Iran got their hands on some Mitutoyo machines despite sanctions. Either way, it's the State Department and Department of Commerce that get involved and the ATF has nothing to do with individual machines.
- jrockway 5y ago
  I was thinking about the Mitutoyo incident, but I think those were coordinate measuring machines, not mills. (5-axis implies milling, but Mitutoyo doesn't make mills. CNC is a generic term that really applies to any sort of machine controlled by a computer -- we have CNC sewing machines at the local makerspace ;) As for geo locks on mills, I have heard about those. My understanding is that they're a software licensing thing -- sell the machine, move it to a new shop, the software stops working. That ensures you can't get your money for the machine on the secondary market, and that new customer has to buy a brand new one directly from the manufacturer. Just your standard DRM scheme to improve corporate profits. Also good to have that equipment on board so that you can switch to a subscription plan if the economy gets bad. I don't know if all 5 axis machines require registration with the government. I have looked at these before: https://pocketnc.com/ https://pocketnc.com/ and they don't say anything about it. Could be too tiny for anyone to care about, though.
Grakel 5y ago
It's perfectly legal to manufacture firearms, although you must have a license to sell them if you have manufactured them for that purpose.
mnouquet 5y ago
If you need more than a good bridgeport mill to make a firearm, you don't deserve to be in a shop... All you really need to make an AR lower is a drill and some aluminium plates. Heck, pakistanies are making a plethora of firearm with nothing but files...

r3trohack3r 5y ago

Fascinating. I searched “ATF register 5 axis cnc” and came up dry. Do you have a reference?

ff-- 5y ago
That's not true. Machines with enough axes to be used in firearm or aerospace machining are subject to export controls, though.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  You can make firearms with bog-standard lathes and milling machines.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Shhh.
- throwaway2048 5y ago
  you don't need a 5 axis milling machine to build a firearm, even a modern one like an M4

canadianfella 5y ago

I don’t believe you.

GravitasFailure 5y ago

I believe you're thinking of the GPS/Gyro locks that certain high end Japanese CNC machines have, and the ITAR compliance issues many CNC machines are subject to for export. The locks were implemented because somehow Iran got their hands on some Mitutoyo machines despite sanctions. Either way, it's the State Department and Department of Commerce that get involved and the ATF has nothing to do with individual machines.

jrockway 5y ago
I was thinking about the Mitutoyo incident, but I think those were coordinate measuring machines, not mills. (5-axis implies milling, but Mitutoyo doesn't make mills. CNC is a generic term that really applies to any sort of machine controlled by a computer -- we have CNC sewing machines at the local makerspace ;) As for geo locks on mills, I have heard about those. My understanding is that they're a software licensing thing -- sell the machine, move it to a new shop, the software stops working. That ensures you can't get your money for the machine on the secondary market, and that new customer has to buy a brand new one directly from the manufacturer. Just your standard DRM scheme to improve corporate profits. Also good to have that equipment on board so that you can switch to a subscription plan if the economy gets bad. I don't know if all 5 axis machines require registration with the government. I have looked at these before: https://pocketnc.com/ https://pocketnc.com/ and they don't say anything about it. Could be too tiny for anyone to care about, though.

Grakel 5y ago

It's perfectly legal to manufacture firearms, although you must have a license to sell them if you have manufactured them for that purpose.

mnouquet 5y ago

If you need more than a good bridgeport mill to make a firearm, you don't deserve to be in a shop... All you really need to make an AR lower is a drill and some aluminium plates. Heck, pakistanies are making a plethora of firearm with nothing but files...