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"Otherwise if we're going to walk the line of "well even though it's your body, 'us smarter people' say it's bad for you there for you cannot do it" will inevit

"Otherwise if we're going to walk the line of "well even though it's your body, 'us smarter people' say it's bad for you there for you cannot do it" will inevitably lead to the logic of dictating abortion rights as well." The first problem is that you are claiming that the child's body is the woman's body. It isn't and you know that. You know that is it an entirely distinct human being with it's own DNA, etc, etc. In order to justify abortion, you would need to argue that murder (which is the direct, intentional killing of an innocent human being) is justifiable. The logical consequences are devastating. For example, if murder of the most innocent, powerless, dependent, and vulnerable, by those with power over them no less, becomes justifable, then it becomes impossible to argue for the legitimacy any human rights whatsoever. You can't just make up moral principles out of thin air or assign arbitrary boundaries to them according to taste. The second problem is that this logic seems to put the cart before the horse. In other words, you've decided that abortion is a right axiomatically and you've decided to dismiss anything that would undermine that belief. But the moral acceptability of abortion is not axiomatic and must be judged according to prior moral principles. "This is exactly the logic conservatives use with the Covid Vaccines but because liberals "know what's good for everyone," people shouldn't be allowed to make the "my body my choice" when it comes to a vaccine." See my first point above. Here conservatives are indeed speaking of just their own bodies, so this is a false equivalence.

coryrc 5y ago
"an entirely distinct human being with it's own DNA, etc" What makes us human beings is our personalities, our brains. Chop off my hand, I'm still me. Destroy my brain, I'm deceased regardless of how long you keep my other organs going. A fetus does not become human, IMO, until it can have a personality and sentience. Women have the power to create without consent of the created; the power to destroy their not-yet-human equally lacks the consent of the created. If the latter is prohibited than so should the former. From a societal view, we have enough people. Every way to support people consensually choosing to not have children should be encouraged.
jodrellblank 5y ago
> "you know that is it an entirely distinct human being" You know that it isn't entirely distinct, it is inside and completely dependent upon another human. > "In order to justify abortion, you would need to argue that murder (which is the direct, intentional killing of an innocent human being) is justifiable." How do you feel when a woman has a miscarriage? The child is dead, the mother's body deliberately killed it. Is she culpable? Is it different if her brain cells are involved in the rejection of the child? Isn't that you assigning arbitrary boundaries according to taste? There have to be arbitrary boundaries, the universe is a single thing, the idea of there being separate things inside it is a human convenient fiction, it's not real. The boundaries between things are fuzzy and disappear the closer you look at them. There's "just" atoms and energy, everything else is concept, if we want morals in the universe we have to make them up, and if we want them to apply to people, we have to make those up too.

coryrc 5y ago

"an entirely distinct human being with it's own DNA, etc" What makes us human beings is our personalities, our brains. Chop off my hand, I'm still me. Destroy my brain, I'm deceased regardless of how long you keep my other organs going. A fetus does not become human, IMO, until it can have a personality and sentience. Women have the power to create without consent of the created; the power to destroy their not-yet-human equally lacks the consent of the created. If the latter is prohibited than so should the former. From a societal view, we have enough people. Every way to support people consensually choosing to not have children should be encouraged.

jodrellblank 5y ago

> "you know that is it an entirely distinct human being" You know that it isn't entirely distinct, it is inside and completely dependent upon another human. > "In order to justify abortion, you would need to argue that murder (which is the direct, intentional killing of an innocent human being) is justifiable." How do you feel when a woman has a miscarriage? The child is dead, the mother's body deliberately killed it. Is she culpable? Is it different if her brain cells are involved in the rejection of the child? Isn't that you assigning arbitrary boundaries according to taste? There have to be arbitrary boundaries, the universe is a single thing, the idea of there being separate things inside it is a human convenient fiction, it's not real. The boundaries between things are fuzzy and disappear the closer you look at them. There's "just" atoms and energy, everything else is concept, if we want morals in the universe we have to make them up, and if we want them to apply to people, we have to make those up too.