4 ms·

Framing is a plausible place to optimize, so how about steel? The factory cuts all the pieces to be assembled on site. It goes up real fast. This is what we wan

Framing is a plausible place to optimize, so how about steel? The factory cuts all the pieces to be assembled on site. It goes up real fast. This is what we want, right?

lostapathy 5y ago
At very small scales, this is already done with wood framing. There are vendors that will send out a pre-cut framing package with every piece of wood cut and marked, and even stacked in the right order for fairly optimal assembly. The trouble is that most house plans are not put together to a sufficient level of detail for this to work - contractors rely on all kinds of field decisions/adjustments.
- ianbicking 5y ago
  How many house plans does the world need? 100? 1000?
  - lostapathy 5y ago
    I don't disagree. This shouldn't be an insurmountable problem, but it's definitely the current state of the art. I'm currently in the process of having a house built, and it's infuriating to me as an engineer how little detail I'm allowed to have either before or during the process. I have to rely on change orders to fix things that were totally preventable/plannable.
    - ianbicking 5y ago
      I'm sure it's my naive hubris that makes me think someone should just design a dozen houses, each with a handful of well defined modifications (including to the facade), and do it with enough specificity that it could be turned into very exact instructions and material lists that suppliers could easily fulfill. Hubris in particular because I'm sure architects think a lot about this and if they don't do it it's for some good reason... or they have done it and it just doesn't effect the market like I imagine it could. I read about a government research program into building (70s?) that failed to reach its own goals but did advance building standards, and this does feel like something where government funded research could help. Something closer to how highway safety research is done, as opposed to scientific research.
      - lostapathy 5y ago
        I'd be shocked if even 1% of houses built in the US actually involve an architect. Nearly all are built by a builder and plans drawn by a drafter. There are prescriptive codes for everything "normal", so you don't have to consult an architect or engineer for structural things on most "common" houses. Figure anything up to 2x median purchase price probably can be built without either an architect or an engineer. It's a crazy world and I don't disagree with you, but the housing market really doesn't work like one wants to think.
robocat 5y ago
Note that steel framing is available in Australia, I think partially because of termites. https://www.google.com/search?q=australia+steel+frame+homes https://www.google.com/search?q=australia+steel+frame+homes
sgerenser 5y ago
They’re generally quite a bit more expensive than wood 2x4s and conduct heat and cold so well that they almost totally defeat any fluffy insulation used between studs. This basically requires a layer of board insulation on the outside (this is commonly part of an EIFS system used in commercial construction). They also aren’t as amenable to hanging stuff as wood studs which is a common requirement in residential homes.
prawn 5y ago
I've hired gyprockers (drywallers in US) here in Australia that use lightweight steel framing and it is obscenely fast. They have wall frames up (nailgun that bolts to concrete floors) in literally minutes, slap up the gyprock and then most of the delay is waiting for the plastering to dry so they can come back and sand it. That's just interior tweaks though rather than anything particularly structural.

Framing is a plausible place to optimize, so how about steel? The factory cuts all the pieces to be assembled on site. It goes up real fast. This is what we want, right?

lostapathy 5y ago

At very small scales, this is already done with wood framing. There are vendors that will send out a pre-cut framing package with every piece of wood cut and marked, and even stacked in the right order for fairly optimal assembly. The trouble is that most house plans are not put together to a sufficient level of detail for this to work - contractors rely on all kinds of field decisions/adjustments.

ianbicking 5y ago
How many house plans does the world need? 100? 1000?
- lostapathy 5y ago
  I don't disagree. This shouldn't be an insurmountable problem, but it's definitely the current state of the art. I'm currently in the process of having a house built, and it's infuriating to me as an engineer how little detail I'm allowed to have either before or during the process. I have to rely on change orders to fix things that were totally preventable/plannable.
  - ianbicking 5y ago
    I'm sure it's my naive hubris that makes me think someone should just design a dozen houses, each with a handful of well defined modifications (including to the facade), and do it with enough specificity that it could be turned into very exact instructions and material lists that suppliers could easily fulfill. Hubris in particular because I'm sure architects think a lot about this and if they don't do it it's for some good reason... or they have done it and it just doesn't effect the market like I imagine it could. I read about a government research program into building (70s?) that failed to reach its own goals but did advance building standards, and this does feel like something where government funded research could help. Something closer to how highway safety research is done, as opposed to scientific research.
    - lostapathy 5y ago
      I'd be shocked if even 1% of houses built in the US actually involve an architect. Nearly all are built by a builder and plans drawn by a drafter. There are prescriptive codes for everything "normal", so you don't have to consult an architect or engineer for structural things on most "common" houses. Figure anything up to 2x median purchase price probably can be built without either an architect or an engineer. It's a crazy world and I don't disagree with you, but the housing market really doesn't work like one wants to think.

robocat 5y ago

Note that steel framing is available in Australia, I think partially because of termites. https://www.google.com/search?q=australia+steel+frame+homes https://www.google.com/search?q=australia+steel+frame+homes

sgerenser 5y ago

They’re generally quite a bit more expensive than wood 2x4s and conduct heat and cold so well that they almost totally defeat any fluffy insulation used between studs. This basically requires a layer of board insulation on the outside (this is commonly part of an EIFS system used in commercial construction). They also aren’t as amenable to hanging stuff as wood studs which is a common requirement in residential homes.

prawn 5y ago

I've hired gyprockers (drywallers in US) here in Australia that use lightweight steel framing and it is obscenely fast. They have wall frames up (nailgun that bolts to concrete floors) in literally minutes, slap up the gyprock and then most of the delay is waiting for the plastering to dry so they can come back and sand it. That's just interior tweaks though rather than anything particularly structural.