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When you graduate from a Techstars program you'll be an expert in Techstars and not much else although you'll probably have a good idea if this startup thing is

When you graduate from a Techstars program you'll be an expert in Techstars and not much else although you'll probably have a good idea if this startup thing is something you'd like to do. I cannot say the same thing for a person attending a two-year program, being exposed to both intensive and non-intensive graduate-level studies and acquiring knowledge through study and experience that an incubator cannot. I'd recommend an incubator like Techstars to a [well-rounded] person with an undergraduate degree looking for a great start in this particular industry, but never in lieu of a Harvard MBA. Wouldn't even consider it.

reecepacheco 15y ago
curious - are you a TechStars alum?
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  I am not, but I'm from Cambridge, Massholia and I know some of the organizers, graduates and money folks that support the program. At the time of YC making headway ('06?) I gave an incubator some thought at the time I thought that I was too old for it. In retrospect, I'd still give it a go today and I'm over the hill. High-energy, focused programs are great, but again, are no substitute for traditional education.
  - reecepacheco 15y ago
    fair enough i think all programs/institutions etc are what you make of them there are students who go to Ivy Leagues and soak it up and there are others who f* it up likewise, there are startups who learn a ton and excel in an accelerator and there are others who flounder
earbitscom 15y ago
This comes off as incredibly biased. I haven't gone through Techstars, but I've done YC. I wouldn't consider myself an expert on YC (only reasonably knowledgeable about the session I went through), but I will say that the training and experience I gained has been invaluable in my efforts to focus on product, communicate about our vision, talk to investors (or ignore them), and much more. These things I learned from doing them, not reading about them. Does participating in YC make me an expert in building a company? No, building a company does that. To that point, getting a Harvard MBA doesn't make you much of an expert of anything besides going through Harvard. I have interviewed plenty of marketing MBA's at my old job (not Harvard, but hear me out), and when it comes to online marketing, they don't know the basics. The modern business world, particularly online, moves so fast that it's near impossible for Universities to keep up. Regardless of how good your in-class education might be, you aren't an expert at running a business until you've done it. I would argue that, after 1.5 years of running my own business, I am more of an expert than any fresh-out-of-Harvard-MBA, and I still don't know shit. Until you've felt the pain of firing someone, worrying about payroll, killing a partnership you've invested in, and more, you aren't an expert in business. Neither Techstars/YC nor Harvard make you an expert in anything, and the choice really comes down to what you want to do, and how long you want to spend preparing vs. actually doing something.
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  > (not Harvard, but hear me out) You pretty much spelled out your won counterargument.
  - earbitscom 15y ago
    I'm sorry, but I don't care what school you go to, a Marketing MBA isn't going to be an expert in online advertising until they spend significant time and money doing it. I have friends who have been managing very significant marketing budgets for years. They take 6 months off and they have to re-educate themselves. Nobody walking out of the halls of Harvard jumps on Google Adwords or starts calling in PO's from major online portals and gets good results. Nobody walking out of Techstars does either. Neither of these experiences makes you an expert in managing a business, or any department thereof.
    - jsavimbi 15y ago
      > I would argue that, after 1.5 years of running my own business, I am more of an expert than any fresh-out-of-Harvard-MBA I congratulate you on your experiences, I truly do, but last time I checked, HBS wasn't accepting recent grads, part-time students or the occasional dropouts looking for a career change, nor those with little experience. Never mind people looking for the name cache. It wouldn't hold true for 100% of the cases, of course, because Harvard is a business after all, not a bastion of ethics. Some rich kids are going to slip in, but the vast majority are qualified to attend ~ same holds true for any incubator program. HBS grads have on average four to six years of solid work experience, national service or administrative experience prior to being considered for admission, not to mention recommendations from employers, civic leaders and the like, a history of competitive grades, extended education, community service, upstanding morality and all that. You can check it out here: http://www.hbs.edu/mba/faq/ http://www.hbs.edu/mba/faq/ Not exactly a bunch of lightweights. I'm not sure where the MBA are coming from on your end, but I can say without a doubt that a grunt with 1.5 years experience doesn't scale up to someone being admitted into the top B-Schools in the U.S. And once graduated with that fresh diploma, well, they'd give you the headlight stare if you tried to compare your TS/YC experience against theirs. They're on a whole 'nother level than someone jerking SEO. Personally, I don't like the twats and usually won't work with them, but I don't like MIT engineering peeps either, my personal preference, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out that as a whole, on average they're hard-working, intelligent strivers and given the choice, I'd go work with a recent Harvard MBA over a TS/YC grad with X years experience, and not just because I know the doors to opportunity will open faster, but also because more often than not, these people have been there before and know how to act. In two years you should apply to Harvard, Stern, Wharton, Tuck, Stanford or Sloan. Let me know what the admissions committees think of you or if your outlook has changed.
jaredmck 15y ago
What are these intensive graduate-level studies of which you speak? Because it's certainly not business school. Although if you could get in to HBS then drop out as soon as the tuition is due (not sure how this is structured) to go do techstars/yc or just your startup full-time, then you'd have the best of both worlds. Social status signals via the acceptance and drop out story, and actual experience via the startup. Plus, if you fail hard, it's not like they wouldn't let you back into b-school with a killer essay about what you learned and how you were now ready to "grow up" for the F500 gig and learn 2x2 matrices, PowerPoint buzzword bingo skills, and the type of frameworks that build nothing except little boxes around your thinking.

reecepacheco 15y ago

curious - are you a TechStars alum?

jsavimbi 15y ago
I am not, but I'm from Cambridge, Massholia and I know some of the organizers, graduates and money folks that support the program. At the time of YC making headway ('06?) I gave an incubator some thought at the time I thought that I was too old for it. In retrospect, I'd still give it a go today and I'm over the hill. High-energy, focused programs are great, but again, are no substitute for traditional education.
- reecepacheco 15y ago
  fair enough i think all programs/institutions etc are what you make of them there are students who go to Ivy Leagues and soak it up and there are others who f* it up likewise, there are startups who learn a ton and excel in an accelerator and there are others who flounder

earbitscom 15y ago

This comes off as incredibly biased. I haven't gone through Techstars, but I've done YC. I wouldn't consider myself an expert on YC (only reasonably knowledgeable about the session I went through), but I will say that the training and experience I gained has been invaluable in my efforts to focus on product, communicate about our vision, talk to investors (or ignore them), and much more. These things I learned from doing them, not reading about them. Does participating in YC make me an expert in building a company? No, building a company does that. To that point, getting a Harvard MBA doesn't make you much of an expert of anything besides going through Harvard. I have interviewed plenty of marketing MBA's at my old job (not Harvard, but hear me out), and when it comes to online marketing, they don't know the basics. The modern business world, particularly online, moves so fast that it's near impossible for Universities to keep up. Regardless of how good your in-class education might be, you aren't an expert at running a business until you've done it. I would argue that, after 1.5 years of running my own business, I am more of an expert than any fresh-out-of-Harvard-MBA, and I still don't know shit. Until you've felt the pain of firing someone, worrying about payroll, killing a partnership you've invested in, and more, you aren't an expert in business. Neither Techstars/YC nor Harvard make you an expert in anything, and the choice really comes down to what you want to do, and how long you want to spend preparing vs. actually doing something.

jsavimbi 15y ago
> (not Harvard, but hear me out) You pretty much spelled out your won counterargument.
- earbitscom 15y ago
  I'm sorry, but I don't care what school you go to, a Marketing MBA isn't going to be an expert in online advertising until they spend significant time and money doing it. I have friends who have been managing very significant marketing budgets for years. They take 6 months off and they have to re-educate themselves. Nobody walking out of the halls of Harvard jumps on Google Adwords or starts calling in PO's from major online portals and gets good results. Nobody walking out of Techstars does either. Neither of these experiences makes you an expert in managing a business, or any department thereof.
  - jsavimbi 15y ago
    > I would argue that, after 1.5 years of running my own business, I am more of an expert than any fresh-out-of-Harvard-MBA I congratulate you on your experiences, I truly do, but last time I checked, HBS wasn't accepting recent grads, part-time students or the occasional dropouts looking for a career change, nor those with little experience. Never mind people looking for the name cache. It wouldn't hold true for 100% of the cases, of course, because Harvard is a business after all, not a bastion of ethics. Some rich kids are going to slip in, but the vast majority are qualified to attend ~ same holds true for any incubator program. HBS grads have on average four to six years of solid work experience, national service or administrative experience prior to being considered for admission, not to mention recommendations from employers, civic leaders and the like, a history of competitive grades, extended education, community service, upstanding morality and all that. You can check it out here: http://www.hbs.edu/mba/faq/ http://www.hbs.edu/mba/faq/ Not exactly a bunch of lightweights. I'm not sure where the MBA are coming from on your end, but I can say without a doubt that a grunt with 1.5 years experience doesn't scale up to someone being admitted into the top B-Schools in the U.S. And once graduated with that fresh diploma, well, they'd give you the headlight stare if you tried to compare your TS/YC experience against theirs. They're on a whole 'nother level than someone jerking SEO. Personally, I don't like the twats and usually won't work with them, but I don't like MIT engineering peeps either, my personal preference, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out that as a whole, on average they're hard-working, intelligent strivers and given the choice, I'd go work with a recent Harvard MBA over a TS/YC grad with X years experience, and not just because I know the doors to opportunity will open faster, but also because more often than not, these people have been there before and know how to act. In two years you should apply to Harvard, Stern, Wharton, Tuck, Stanford or Sloan. Let me know what the admissions committees think of you or if your outlook has changed.

jaredmck 15y ago

What are these intensive graduate-level studies of which you speak? Because it's certainly not business school. Although if you could get in to HBS then drop out as soon as the tuition is due (not sure how this is structured) to go do techstars/yc or just your startup full-time, then you'd have the best of both worlds. Social status signals via the acceptance and drop out story, and actual experience via the startup. Plus, if you fail hard, it's not like they wouldn't let you back into b-school with a killer essay about what you learned and how you were now ready to "grow up" for the F500 gig and learn 2x2 matrices, PowerPoint buzzword bingo skills, and the type of frameworks that build nothing except little boxes around your thinking.