3 ms·

> serious network killing bugs in 93 hmm, having a hard time determining if I'm simply defending an entrenched position or if the fact that they were the first

> serious network killing bugs in 93 hmm, having a hard time determining if I'm simply defending an entrenched position or if the fact that they were the first to write FPS netcode might excuse the fact that it didn't initially run super great on corporate IPX networks that wired everything together with hubs instead of switches :) I vaguely remember hearing about that bug, and I very likely played the game prior to getting my hands on a version with it patched out. Never noticed a problem in the computer lab, but then we were still on token ring - where collision lights weren't really a thing. > The entire doom source code is likely smaller than a single grand theft auto save file. Is that a defense of GTA, you think that "complexity" is needed? I don't think so, I think it is emblematic of something very wrong in not just software - but in the mentality one would need in order to look at the depth of our average stack traces and think "Meh, 25 calls deep isn't bad for text file pretty printer".

giobox 5y ago
I think it’s pretty ridiculous to think something more complex than doom isn’t needed in a game simulating a vast number of systems like GTA, yes. Bugs and issues increase with complexity, surprise! Doom is gloriously simple by today’s standards - it doesn’t even support “room over room”. That isn’t a criticism of today being over-complex either - the state of the art in gameplay systems has just moved on massively as compute power has increased. We take “room over room” for-granted in 2021 which we couldn’t in the 90s. Separately, if you can manage a software release with 1000 human developers, multiple release platforms and millions of users over 5 years (like GTA 5) and not ship random little performance bugs, you need to tell the rest of the world the secret of how you did it.
- sennight 5y ago
  > I think it’s pretty ridiculous to think something more complex than doom isn’t needed... That isn't what I said, it isn't even close enough to pretend that it isn't a bad faith interpretation designed to strawman an argument where you don't look totally ridiculous. Here, lemme help you get back on track - you said: "The entire doom source code is likely smaller than a single grand theft auto save file." You think I might have been addressing that? > Maybe you are still ok with 640kb of memory too though? ;) Oddly enough, I'm currently writing an (eventually) open source firmware for an ancient APC SmartUPS that used a variant of the 8051 MCU... I'm finding the 16K ROM and 256B RAM pretty roomy. I expect the other two people who eventually flash it onto their hardware in the next 30 years will be very pleased. > random little performance bugs lol, writing a microtransaction json parser that increases load times by an order of magnitude, for millions of customers, for years - and is so braindead that somebody with all the resources of a freeware decompiler and a stopwatch can do your job better than you... that isn't a "whoops, more seizure t-poses", that is a "I care so little about the quality of my work that I'm not even gonna bother dumping a flamegraph for that 10 minute freeze everyone has to sit through - for years."

giobox 5y ago

I think it’s pretty ridiculous to think something more complex than doom isn’t needed in a game simulating a vast number of systems like GTA, yes. Bugs and issues increase with complexity, surprise! Doom is gloriously simple by today’s standards - it doesn’t even support “room over room”. That isn’t a criticism of today being over-complex either - the state of the art in gameplay systems has just moved on massively as compute power has increased. We take “room over room” for-granted in 2021 which we couldn’t in the 90s. Separately, if you can manage a software release with 1000 human developers, multiple release platforms and millions of users over 5 years (like GTA 5) and not ship random little performance bugs, you need to tell the rest of the world the secret of how you did it.

sennight 5y ago
> I think it’s pretty ridiculous to think something more complex than doom isn’t needed... That isn't what I said, it isn't even close enough to pretend that it isn't a bad faith interpretation designed to strawman an argument where you don't look totally ridiculous. Here, lemme help you get back on track - you said: "The entire doom source code is likely smaller than a single grand theft auto save file." You think I might have been addressing that? > Maybe you are still ok with 640kb of memory too though? ;) Oddly enough, I'm currently writing an (eventually) open source firmware for an ancient APC SmartUPS that used a variant of the 8051 MCU... I'm finding the 16K ROM and 256B RAM pretty roomy. I expect the other two people who eventually flash it onto their hardware in the next 30 years will be very pleased. > random little performance bugs lol, writing a microtransaction json parser that increases load times by an order of magnitude, for millions of customers, for years - and is so braindead that somebody with all the resources of a freeware decompiler and a stopwatch can do your job better than you... that isn't a "whoops, more seizure t-poses", that is a "I care so little about the quality of my work that I'm not even gonna bother dumping a flamegraph for that 10 minute freeze everyone has to sit through - for years."