5 ms·

Where does the "ad invasion" end? Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Smart windows that display ads that blo

by cs702 5y ago

Where does the "ad invasion" end? Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Smart windows that display ads that block your view of your backyard? Smart paints that display ads on your bedroom walls? Smart shower-heads that play jingles as you wash yourself? Smart brain implants that directly induce subconscious desire to buy certain products and services? Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right to advertise?

Ansil849 5y ago
It will never end so long as consumers will keep buying the products. In other words, it will never end, period.
ne0flex 5y ago
There was one startup that I met a few years ago that focused on enabling IoT on 'dumb' devices. Their first product some sort of plug for ceiling fans that allowed people to turn on & off / control the ceiling fan with their smartphone. The product also required a $5/month subscription service. I remember asking the CEO why would someone pay $5/month just to control their fan and he basically responded that the idea seems ludicrous and this point in time, but eventually people will catch on, and then he made an allusion to Microsoft Office and how that it's becoming a subscription product despite initially being one-off purchase 15 years ago.
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  I think you're overestimating the degree to which useless subscriptions are sustainable. I just moved and am about to purchase something identical to what you're describing[1], and it's a one-time purchase, as expected. [1] https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451 https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451
  - yccs27 5y ago
    Are you sure it will stay a one-time purchase? Given the post topic, your confidence seems ironic. In a few years' time, you might start seeing ads in the associated app...
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      I think you've misunderstood both my comment and the one I was responding to. Neither of us mentioned ads? I was pointing out that even the parent comment's very example of a slow slide towards universal subscriptions that add no value didn't hold. It was framed as "I have inside knowledge of this nascent product category and its capture by useless subscriptions", while in reality this is already a market category that exists without any such issues. This bizarre wild-eyed fearmongering about insane, lose-lose, somehow-inescapable business models is HN's version of QAnon.
  - charleslmunger 5y ago
    If it has a cloud dependency, you can be confident that the system it controls will probably outlive the service's free lifetime. If you're willing to do some technical work, there is fantastic open source tooling in this space. Then you'll have a setup that isn't affected by the business desires or financial problems of others. As a bonus, you get better latency over lan. https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Tasmota-IR/#sending-irhvac-commands https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Tasmota-IR/#sending-irhvac-co...
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      Oh agreed, I haven't yet purchased the unit because it's on my todo list to look into options that don't have external deps. Historically, I have a strong preference for removing unnecessary servers in favor of using dynamic DNS with a device on my home network. My only point was that even this server-based system is already selling without a subscription, and as you point out, the off-ramp to a system with no cloud dependency is pretty clear for those who want to avoid subscriptions (or dependencies in general). Thanks for the pointer!
banana_giraffe 5y ago
A quick search found this article in the marketing press: https://martechseries.com/mts-insights/guest-authors/why-refrigerator-tv-is-the-next-cool-ad-opportunity/ https://martechseries.com/mts-insights/guest-authors/why-ref... It's from 2018, and no progress has been mad on this wonderous world for ad-subsidized fridges that I know of. Still, it's clear people are thinking along these lines. And I remain adamant that any appliance I own like this must not have wifi or bluetooth functionality. After my TV started showing ads when I switched inputs, I'm done giving these people an inch.
- distances 5y ago
  Maybe not at home, but this was just at HN frontpage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636773
- laurent92 5y ago
  Amazon devices give wifi to each others even if they belong to the neighbor. Next posh thing will be Faraday enclosures for fridges.
techlaw 5y ago
- "Smart" alarm clock requires micropayment to use snooze. And they say: "Why not? We indicated in the TOS (on page 4) our ability to 'modify the program as needed to better support our customers or our services.' "Also please note that our TOS, which incorporates our Privacy Policy, allows us to sell your wake-up time to third parties in real-time. "And before you say you never agreed to our TOS, we say you did when you plugged the SuperSmartestAlarm into a power outlet (as clearly indicated on page 22 of the aforementioned TOS, which can be conveniently viewed in a 6" x 2" frame with vertical and horizontal scrollbars)." [Since this is too close to the truth to be obvious satire: no, this is not happening AFAIK (right now).]
- binarypenny 5y ago
  They wouldn't need to bury that in the TOS; they'd make it a feature: "Our innovative pay-to-snooze feature helps you get up earlier by penalizing you for hitting the snooze button"
  - Piskvorrr 5y ago
    That's already a feature on some smartphone alarms. However, it requires opt-in and usual payment verification - if I want to spend my money on snooze, and specifically authorize this, there's no problem at all.
wutbrodo 5y ago
Isn't the answer to just buy a product explicitly marketed as ad-free? I used to watch enough YouTube that it was worth it for me to pay $10/mo to disable ads (and stream music). It never occurred to me that I was owed as a human right limitless free content with no implicit or explicit cost. Similarly, if ads partially fund a toaster, just....pay more for the toaster without ads? The expansion of ads to every product category doesn't warrant the assumption that it will _consume_ every product category, leaving no ad-free alternatives.
- OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
  That's great, until they stop making the ad free version. It's like TVs, there are no high end ad free TVs now.
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    Interesting, I did some quick Googling and was able to find a good handful of 2020 models with no ads, but none for 2021. I'll take your word for it that they don't exist, but the fact that this is the first year where that appears to be the case is not strong evidence to me that this is the steady-state of the TV market.
    - OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
      You make a good point that it might not be the steady state of the display market, but I think it is for the majority of TVs today. As alternatives, you can buy commercial displays that are effectively TVs (with HDMI in), however they lag in specs and lack some features. You can also buy hospitality versions of TVs as 'dumb' TVs for a similar price, but these also tend to have lower specs. You can buy large format computer monitors (55" is about the highest I've seen) but they are substantially more expensive (roughly 3x more expensive) and typically use DisplayPort instead of HDMI. I only learned about the options because I'm looking to replace my 2013 Plasma TV that has a power supply problem.
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
LarryEt 5y ago
Personally, I would never buy a "smart" anything besides the phone itself. Such a high % of the population is clinically addicted to the phone though I can't blame anyone who makes a product to cater to these addicts.
amptorn 5y ago
> Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right to advertise? Who's "we"? The advertising companies? Then no.
lostlogin 5y ago
> Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Adverts scorched into your toast. I sort of want this.
- ljm 5y ago
  But your DRM encumbered butter won't spread over the scorch marks, as that would be considered to be ad-blocking tech.
- dvtrn 5y ago
  Adverts specifically, or just being able to scorch any design into your toast? The later sure would be neat and novel, my nephew gets a kick out of pancakes that look like his favorite cartoon characters. But adverts on my breakfast? Dear god please no.
ljm 5y ago
There has to be a point where so many things are so heavily encumbered with ads that that there isn't actually a product left to sell any more, it's just a material vehicle for delivering more adverts. And things don't work well because all they're designed for is displaying ads. And the ads themselves are just ads for more ads. And the wealthy will get their peace of mind as they buy out of the system while continuing to preside over and profit from it. It's just going to become another thing that poor people have to live with; subservience to the corporate overlords.
drran 5y ago
Smart wallet, with smart money - google know better how to spend them. Smart condom with smart lubricant - pay as you use. Smart pants - ads on ass, smart farts.

by cs702 5y ago

Ansil849 5y ago

It will never end so long as consumers will keep buying the products. In other words, it will never end, period.

ne0flex 5y ago

There was one startup that I met a few years ago that focused on enabling IoT on 'dumb' devices. Their first product some sort of plug for ceiling fans that allowed people to turn on & off / control the ceiling fan with their smartphone. The product also required a $5/month subscription service. I remember asking the CEO why would someone pay $5/month just to control their fan and he basically responded that the idea seems ludicrous and this point in time, but eventually people will catch on, and then he made an allusion to Microsoft Office and how that it's becoming a subscription product despite initially being one-off purchase 15 years ago.

wutbrodo 5y ago
I think you're overestimating the degree to which useless subscriptions are sustainable. I just moved and am about to purchase something identical to what you're describing[1], and it's a one-time purchase, as expected. [1] https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451 https://sensibo.com/?device=m&campaignID=12697870451
- yccs27 5y ago
  Are you sure it will stay a one-time purchase? Given the post topic, your confidence seems ironic. In a few years' time, you might start seeing ads in the associated app...
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    I think you've misunderstood both my comment and the one I was responding to. Neither of us mentioned ads? I was pointing out that even the parent comment's very example of a slow slide towards universal subscriptions that add no value didn't hold. It was framed as "I have inside knowledge of this nascent product category and its capture by useless subscriptions", while in reality this is already a market category that exists without any such issues. This bizarre wild-eyed fearmongering about insane, lose-lose, somehow-inescapable business models is HN's version of QAnon.
- charleslmunger 5y ago
  If it has a cloud dependency, you can be confident that the system it controls will probably outlive the service's free lifetime. If you're willing to do some technical work, there is fantastic open source tooling in this space. Then you'll have a setup that isn't affected by the business desires or financial problems of others. As a bonus, you get better latency over lan. https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Tasmota-IR/#sending-irhvac-commands https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Tasmota-IR/#sending-irhvac-co...
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    Oh agreed, I haven't yet purchased the unit because it's on my todo list to look into options that don't have external deps. Historically, I have a strong preference for removing unnecessary servers in favor of using dynamic DNS with a device on my home network. My only point was that even this server-based system is already selling without a subscription, and as you point out, the off-ramp to a system with no cloud dependency is pretty clear for those who want to avoid subscriptions (or dependencies in general). Thanks for the pointer!

banana_giraffe 5y ago

A quick search found this article in the marketing press: https://martechseries.com/mts-insights/guest-authors/why-refrigerator-tv-is-the-next-cool-ad-opportunity/ https://martechseries.com/mts-insights/guest-authors/why-ref... It's from 2018, and no progress has been mad on this wonderous world for ad-subsidized fridges that I know of. Still, it's clear people are thinking along these lines. And I remain adamant that any appliance I own like this must not have wifi or bluetooth functionality. After my TV started showing ads when I switched inputs, I'm done giving these people an inch.

distances 5y ago
Maybe not at home, but this was just at HN frontpage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27636773
laurent92 5y ago
Amazon devices give wifi to each others even if they belong to the neighbor. Next posh thing will be Faraday enclosures for fridges.

techlaw 5y ago

- "Smart" alarm clock requires micropayment to use snooze. And they say: "Why not? We indicated in the TOS (on page 4) our ability to 'modify the program as needed to better support our customers or our services.' "Also please note that our TOS, which incorporates our Privacy Policy, allows us to sell your wake-up time to third parties in real-time. "And before you say you never agreed to our TOS, we say you did when you plugged the SuperSmartestAlarm into a power outlet (as clearly indicated on page 22 of the aforementioned TOS, which can be conveniently viewed in a 6" x 2" frame with vertical and horizontal scrollbars)." [Since this is too close to the truth to be obvious satire: no, this is not happening AFAIK (right now).]

binarypenny 5y ago
They wouldn't need to bury that in the TOS; they'd make it a feature: "Our innovative pay-to-snooze feature helps you get up earlier by penalizing you for hitting the snooze button"
- Piskvorrr 5y ago
  That's already a feature on some smartphone alarms. However, it requires opt-in and usual payment verification - if I want to spend my money on snooze, and specifically authorize this, there's no problem at all.

wutbrodo 5y ago

Isn't the answer to just buy a product explicitly marketed as ad-free? I used to watch enough YouTube that it was worth it for me to pay $10/mo to disable ads (and stream music). It never occurred to me that I was owed as a human right limitless free content with no implicit or explicit cost. Similarly, if ads partially fund a toaster, just....pay more for the toaster without ads? The expansion of ads to every product category doesn't warrant the assumption that it will _consume_ every product category, leaving no ad-free alternatives.

OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
That's great, until they stop making the ad free version. It's like TVs, there are no high end ad free TVs now.
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  Interesting, I did some quick Googling and was able to find a good handful of 2020 models with no ads, but none for 2021. I'll take your word for it that they don't exist, but the fact that this is the first year where that appears to be the case is not strong evidence to me that this is the steady-state of the TV market.
  - OldTimeCoffee 5y ago
    You make a good point that it might not be the steady state of the display market, but I think it is for the majority of TVs today. As alternatives, you can buy commercial displays that are effectively TVs (with HDMI in), however they lag in specs and lack some features. You can also buy hospitality versions of TVs as 'dumb' TVs for a similar price, but these also tend to have lower specs. You can buy large format computer monitors (55" is about the highest I've seen) but they are substantially more expensive (roughly 3x more expensive) and typically use DisplayPort instead of HDMI. I only learned about the options because I'm looking to replace my 2013 Plasma TV that has a power supply problem.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago

LarryEt 5y ago

Personally, I would never buy a "smart" anything besides the phone itself. Such a high % of the population is clinically addicted to the phone though I can't blame anyone who makes a product to cater to these addicts.

amptorn 5y ago

> Is there some kind of limit at which we value the right to personal privacy and the right to peace-of-mind over the right to advertise? Who's "we"? The advertising companies? Then no.

lostlogin 5y ago

> Smart toasters that force you to watch ads before getting your toast in the morning? Adverts scorched into your toast. I sort of want this.

ljm 5y ago
But your DRM encumbered butter won't spread over the scorch marks, as that would be considered to be ad-blocking tech.
dvtrn 5y ago
Adverts specifically, or just being able to scorch any design into your toast? The later sure would be neat and novel, my nephew gets a kick out of pancakes that look like his favorite cartoon characters. But adverts on my breakfast? Dear god please no.

ljm 5y ago

There has to be a point where so many things are so heavily encumbered with ads that that there isn't actually a product left to sell any more, it's just a material vehicle for delivering more adverts. And things don't work well because all they're designed for is displaying ads. And the ads themselves are just ads for more ads. And the wealthy will get their peace of mind as they buy out of the system while continuing to preside over and profit from it. It's just going to become another thing that poor people have to live with; subservience to the corporate overlords.

drran 5y ago

Smart wallet, with smart money - google know better how to spend them. Smart condom with smart lubricant - pay as you use. Smart pants - ads on ass, smart farts.