5 ms·

>But most of the world is goyim I doubt you meant to use it this way, but that word is seen by many as an offensive slur against non-Jews. It's frequently used

>But most of the world is goyim I doubt you meant to use it this way, but that word is seen by many as an offensive slur against non-Jews. It's frequently used in a way that has racist and derogatory undertones. Googling "goyim" returns some colorful results.

JasonFruit 5y ago
Googling "Jew" returns, or did in the past, some colorful results. Humans gonna human.
dsr_ 5y ago
I have never used or heard "goyim" used in a way which meant anything other than "everybody in the world who does not think of themselves as Jewish". I suppose one could use it derogatorily, but that's not my experience. I assure you that context is everything. When Jews say "Jews", we just mean Jews. And when lots of goyim say "Jews", they mean "sub-human monsters". Please feel free to censor your own language. And if you see me use "goyim" to be offensive, feel free to call me out on that.
- neartheplain 5y ago
  I'm glad you've never heard "goyim" used in a derogatory manner, whereas I have. Tone is difficult to infer from plain text. To avoid confusion, I recommend you use other groups and races' preferred labels when speaking about them in public. This is advice I follow and have found to be a good rule. Just so you know I'm not making this up; Merriam-Webster lists "goy" as "sometimes disparaging": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goy Use of this word in 2017 got Huffington Post in trouble with the Anti-Defamation League, and others who felt it was over the line: https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/huffpost-bannon-headline-goy-bye-creates-backlash/ https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/huffpost-bannon-headlin...
  - dsr_ 5y ago
    I agree that HuffPo chose the wrong term there. There's nothing particularly apropos about Bannon not being Jewish, and HuffPo is not a Jewish organization. I repeat: feel free to call out people who are being derogatory, no matter what the term. Banning words regardless of context hurts everyone.
- compsciphd 5y ago
  so this is my critique of you here. You are talking about the need to "code switch" in terms of talking "jewish" and talking "english". i.e. "kosher" when one talks "jewish" can mean one thing, but when one talks "english" it generally about food. But then, you don't code switch about "goyim" when it should be simply "non-jews" if one is trying to speak "english". And this is where the concept can be insulting. if one is claiming one is speaking english, using the word goyim isn't simply saying "non jews", its about othering them. i.e. you are purposefully not code switching (or am, depending on one's POV) that term. That can be problematic. I'd also disagree that kosher just means food in plain english. Plenty of non jews are known to say "that's not kosher" (i.e. as in "not right") in things that have nothing to do with food.

JasonFruit 5y ago

Googling "Jew" returns, or did in the past, some colorful results. Humans gonna human.

dsr_ 5y ago

I have never used or heard "goyim" used in a way which meant anything other than "everybody in the world who does not think of themselves as Jewish". I suppose one could use it derogatorily, but that's not my experience. I assure you that context is everything. When Jews say "Jews", we just mean Jews. And when lots of goyim say "Jews", they mean "sub-human monsters". Please feel free to censor your own language. And if you see me use "goyim" to be offensive, feel free to call me out on that.

neartheplain 5y ago
I'm glad you've never heard "goyim" used in a derogatory manner, whereas I have. Tone is difficult to infer from plain text. To avoid confusion, I recommend you use other groups and races' preferred labels when speaking about them in public. This is advice I follow and have found to be a good rule. Just so you know I'm not making this up; Merriam-Webster lists "goy" as "sometimes disparaging": https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goy https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/goy Use of this word in 2017 got Huffington Post in trouble with the Anti-Defamation League, and others who felt it was over the line: https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/huffpost-bannon-headline-goy-bye-creates-backlash/ https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/huffpost-bannon-headlin...
- dsr_ 5y ago
  I agree that HuffPo chose the wrong term there. There's nothing particularly apropos about Bannon not being Jewish, and HuffPo is not a Jewish organization. I repeat: feel free to call out people who are being derogatory, no matter what the term. Banning words regardless of context hurts everyone.
compsciphd 5y ago
so this is my critique of you here. You are talking about the need to "code switch" in terms of talking "jewish" and talking "english". i.e. "kosher" when one talks "jewish" can mean one thing, but when one talks "english" it generally about food. But then, you don't code switch about "goyim" when it should be simply "non-jews" if one is trying to speak "english". And this is where the concept can be insulting. if one is claiming one is speaking english, using the word goyim isn't simply saying "non jews", its about othering them. i.e. you are purposefully not code switching (or am, depending on one's POV) that term. That can be problematic. I'd also disagree that kosher just means food in plain english. Plenty of non jews are known to say "that's not kosher" (i.e. as in "not right") in things that have nothing to do with food.