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> Apple are slowly undoing their great usability work in the name of elegance. Not slowly, or recently. The big removal of affordances happened with IOS 7, a

by jp57 5y ago

> Apple are slowly undoing their great usability work in the name of elegance. Not slowly, or recently. The big removal of affordances happened with IOS 7, and Jony Ive's "flat" UI aesthetic. Don Norman and Bruce Tognazzini, former Apple UI researchers and champions of UI affordances, wrote an essay[1] complaining about this problem in 2015. It seems like this era might be slowly _ending_ now that Ive is gone. [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name https://www.fastcompany.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-desi...

johnnysinns 5y ago
And man, didn’t the iPhone and iPad completely tank? … oh, wait.
ptx 5y ago
Even less recently than that. As a critique[1] from 1999 of QuickTime 4.0 puts it: "The new interface represents an almost violent departure from the long established standards that have been the hallmark of Apple software. Ease of Use has always been paramount to Apple, but after exploring the QuickTime 4.0 Player, the rationale behind Apple's recent 'Think Different' advertising campaign is now clear." [1] http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm
valuearb 5y ago
What about when MacOS started hiding scrollbars? Ugh.
- jp57 5y ago
  I think that's around the same time? Not sure. Anyway, at least that one is easily overridden in System Preferences >> General.
- jlokier 5y ago
  I think the hidden scrollbars are great. They remove clutter, yet are always readily available when needed. Scrolling in MacOS is one of my favourite things about the UI compared with various versions of Linux and Windows I've used. This is due to the two-finger swipe gesture being really well done and the scroll bar being available when needed. I used Linux as my primary desktop non-stop for 19 years, and in the end the scrolling had got worse. The Ubuntu desktop weird scroll handle thing was awful. MacOS scrolling was so much more ergonomic than that it convinced me to switch. I still develop primarily on Linux, but prefer to do it over SSH even though I have a Lunux desktop when I want it. It doesn't take long using MacOS to develop an instinct for scrolling things with two-finger swipe, and scrolling is generally a very safe thing to do so trying it is harmless. The way swipe scrolling is independent of the focused window is just right, and the scrollbar which appears is easily grabbed on the occasions it's needed.
  - wander_homer 5y ago
    I don't have a Mac to try it, so would you care to explain how the hidden scrollbar works? Like when you open a dialog, do the scrollbars of its scrollable elements always appear and then slowly fade out, or do how do you know something is scrollable without trying to scroll?
    - saagarjha 5y ago
      Yes, scrollbars are supposed to flash when a view appears. This can sometimes not happen, or be hidden (say you open something in a tab and the code is not correctly written to handle visibility, or the more obvious case that you just didn't see it happen) but it's intended to let you know that scrollers are there.
  - valuearb 5y ago
    Problem is the scrollbars often don’t appear when needed, so user has no idea they are there. Worse, even when they appear, they sometimes disappear when you reach for the thumb to move many pages. It’s excruciating on documents with hundreds of pages. Disappearing scrollbars also violate the original Mac UI principles, which were based on an enormous amount of human factors research.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  MacOS hiding scrollbars isn't too bad. Google trying to make all scrollbars like 1 pixel wide, that's the worst.
patentatt 5y ago
I kind of long for the old skeuomorphic look of IOS, something about the in-your-pocket form factor and the touch-centric interface made it really work.

by jp57 5y ago

johnnysinns 5y ago

And man, didn’t the iPhone and iPad completely tank? … oh, wait.

ptx 5y ago

Even less recently than that. As a critique[1] from 1999 of QuickTime 4.0 puts it: "The new interface represents an almost violent departure from the long established standards that have been the hallmark of Apple software. Ease of Use has always been paramount to Apple, but after exploring the QuickTime 4.0 Player, the rationale behind Apple's recent 'Think Different' advertising campaign is now clear." [1] http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/qtime.htm

valuearb 5y ago

What about when MacOS started hiding scrollbars? Ugh.

jp57 5y ago
I think that's around the same time? Not sure. Anyway, at least that one is easily overridden in System Preferences >> General.
jlokier 5y ago
I think the hidden scrollbars are great. They remove clutter, yet are always readily available when needed. Scrolling in MacOS is one of my favourite things about the UI compared with various versions of Linux and Windows I've used. This is due to the two-finger swipe gesture being really well done and the scroll bar being available when needed. I used Linux as my primary desktop non-stop for 19 years, and in the end the scrolling had got worse. The Ubuntu desktop weird scroll handle thing was awful. MacOS scrolling was so much more ergonomic than that it convinced me to switch. I still develop primarily on Linux, but prefer to do it over SSH even though I have a Lunux desktop when I want it. It doesn't take long using MacOS to develop an instinct for scrolling things with two-finger swipe, and scrolling is generally a very safe thing to do so trying it is harmless. The way swipe scrolling is independent of the focused window is just right, and the scrollbar which appears is easily grabbed on the occasions it's needed.
- wander_homer 5y ago
  I don't have a Mac to try it, so would you care to explain how the hidden scrollbar works? Like when you open a dialog, do the scrollbars of its scrollable elements always appear and then slowly fade out, or do how do you know something is scrollable without trying to scroll?
  - saagarjha 5y ago
    Yes, scrollbars are supposed to flash when a view appears. This can sometimes not happen, or be hidden (say you open something in a tab and the code is not correctly written to handle visibility, or the more obvious case that you just didn't see it happen) but it's intended to let you know that scrollers are there.
- valuearb 5y ago
  Problem is the scrollbars often don’t appear when needed, so user has no idea they are there. Worse, even when they appear, they sometimes disappear when you reach for the thumb to move many pages. It’s excruciating on documents with hundreds of pages. Disappearing scrollbars also violate the original Mac UI principles, which were based on an enormous amount of human factors research.
HWR_14 5y ago
MacOS hiding scrollbars isn't too bad. Google trying to make all scrollbars like 1 pixel wide, that's the worst.

patentatt 5y ago

I kind of long for the old skeuomorphic look of IOS, something about the in-your-pocket form factor and the touch-centric interface made it really work.