3 ms·

OP seems to be himself an Israeli and presumably a Jew. I did not read his post as being anti-Jewish or anti-religion in anyway.

giggly_gopher 5y ago
Context is important. Imagine someone randomly starts talking to the one black man sitting in an Omaha airport about violent crime
gambiting 5y ago
Same - I don't see that post as being anti-Jewish in the slightest.
gnadsucks 5y ago
My mother is Israeli. I’m an atheist in New York pissed off at how many of “my people” live off the welfare while the rest of us bust asses to put a roof over our head. The haredim live fat off of our taxes and put targets on our backs. They literally have jack booted thugs, “private security” walking around new york keeping non-haredim out of their enclaves. Wherever you are, if an orthodox jew has a dollar or a scheckel to spend, 9/10 times it came from public assistance. These “kosher” phones designed to help haredim hide from the outside world are paid for by your tax dollars.
- xyzelement 5y ago
  // These “kosher” phones designed to help haredim hide from the outside world are paid for by your tax dollars. Would you feel comfortable saying in polite society "whenever you see one of these (insert race/group) talking on their Obama-phone, these are paid for by your tax dollars?" Whatever your background, you are spewing vitriol that says much more about you than anyone else.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    > Would you feel comfortable saying in polite society "whenever > you see one of these (insert race/group) talking on their > Obama-phone, these are paid for by your tax dollars?" You don't need to take offense for some other demographic that you are unfamiliar with. Different cultures have different values, and some stereotypes based on these different values are true. In this case, it might not be 9/10 but GP is correct that a significant fraction of the people that GP is condemning live off of donations and government subsidies. It is part of their culture. Don't be so afraid to identify the negative aspects of some cultures. They exist.
    - clipradiowallet 5y ago
      > In this case, it might not be 9/10 but GP is correct that a significant fraction of the people that GP is condemning live off of donations and government subsidies. It is part of their culture. Excuse my ignorance...but is this true? The bit about their culture including living off donations or subsidies etc.. I had not heard that before - could you share some more information about that?
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        From what I've been told - not by members of the community but from those who oppose them - these people believe that they don't have time to work. They are too busying studying Torah. You should know, these people are a very small minority in our country and do not represent the rest of us. It is a small part of my taxes that go to these people, but obviously many people take issue with it.
        clipradiowallet 5y ago
        Thanks for the information, I had no idea!
xyzelement 5y ago
Umm... Where did you get this idea? His account was something like 14 minutes old when his comment was made and he has no other comment history.
slg 5y ago
>I did not read his post as being anti-Jewish It is a non sequitur that negatively generalizes Jews as guilty of the actions committed by a very small subset of Jews. This is anti-Semitic. It is similar to coming into the comments of a post about Ramadan and declaring that Muslims are terrorists.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  1. > It is a non sequitur that negatively generalizes $X as guilty of the actions committed by a very small subset of $X. This is anti-$X. Welcome to the Internet, and welcome to the club! This is a significant fraction of all social activity, it seems. People are into tribes, evidently. 2. This whole thing depends on how the relevant categories are perceived. I think things are different in Israel than they are in, say, the United States. In Israel, the ulta-orthodox are a distinct category, and mainstream/centrist/reform people will criticize them. In the United States, people see the categories from further away, and they blur together into "Jewish", which causes both anti-Semitism, and reflexive defense of "my people" (even if they are not actually your people). Second-generation kids from all manner of immigrant backgrounds have similar problems. They'll identify with extremist elements of "the homeland", because they think $MAJORITY/$NATIONALITY is the important dichotomy. When really, in the "homeland", there is some other political dichotomy which is actually important. And which they have been able to ignore, because they've lived in the United States. A good example is a particular generation of Irish-Americans, who supported the IRA. Current examples include ABCs and ABDs. The relationship between them and those who stayed is complicated. Eventually the latter becomes a kind of mascot adopted by the former: "Notre Dame: The Fighting Irish!" The best cure for this is to let people spend time visiting "the homeland", so they can come to realize that they're not from there any more. This applies now to the situation in Israel. Peoples' allegiances are based on imagined categories, and those allegiances are not always reciprocated. 3. To emphasize my philosophical point: > It is similar to coming into the comments of a post about Ramadan and declaring that Muslims are terrorists. This implicitly requires an answer to the question: What -- or, I should say, Who -- is a Muslim? Who is a Jew? Who is a Gentile? This expands to every category. 4. Similar questions now plague the United States. Who is Of Color? What does it mean to be White? Are you Black or are you Kanye? There are a lot of boundaries. Circles cut around a collection of individuals, in the mind, to mark them.

giggly_gopher 5y ago

Context is important. Imagine someone randomly starts talking to the one black man sitting in an Omaha airport about violent crime

gambiting 5y ago

Same - I don't see that post as being anti-Jewish in the slightest.

gnadsucks 5y ago

My mother is Israeli. I’m an atheist in New York pissed off at how many of “my people” live off the welfare while the rest of us bust asses to put a roof over our head. The haredim live fat off of our taxes and put targets on our backs. They literally have jack booted thugs, “private security” walking around new york keeping non-haredim out of their enclaves. Wherever you are, if an orthodox jew has a dollar or a scheckel to spend, 9/10 times it came from public assistance. These “kosher” phones designed to help haredim hide from the outside world are paid for by your tax dollars.

xyzelement 5y ago
// These “kosher” phones designed to help haredim hide from the outside world are paid for by your tax dollars. Would you feel comfortable saying in polite society "whenever you see one of these (insert race/group) talking on their Obama-phone, these are paid for by your tax dollars?" Whatever your background, you are spewing vitriol that says much more about you than anyone else.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  > Would you feel comfortable saying in polite society "whenever > you see one of these (insert race/group) talking on their > Obama-phone, these are paid for by your tax dollars?" You don't need to take offense for some other demographic that you are unfamiliar with. Different cultures have different values, and some stereotypes based on these different values are true. In this case, it might not be 9/10 but GP is correct that a significant fraction of the people that GP is condemning live off of donations and government subsidies. It is part of their culture. Don't be so afraid to identify the negative aspects of some cultures. They exist.
  - clipradiowallet 5y ago
    > In this case, it might not be 9/10 but GP is correct that a significant fraction of the people that GP is condemning live off of donations and government subsidies. It is part of their culture. Excuse my ignorance...but is this true? The bit about their culture including living off donations or subsidies etc.. I had not heard that before - could you share some more information about that?
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      From what I've been told - not by members of the community but from those who oppose them - these people believe that they don't have time to work. They are too busying studying Torah. You should know, these people are a very small minority in our country and do not represent the rest of us. It is a small part of my taxes that go to these people, but obviously many people take issue with it.
      - clipradiowallet 5y ago
        Thanks for the information, I had no idea!

xyzelement 5y ago

Umm... Where did you get this idea? His account was something like 14 minutes old when his comment was made and he has no other comment history.

slg 5y ago

>I did not read his post as being anti-Jewish It is a non sequitur that negatively generalizes Jews as guilty of the actions committed by a very small subset of Jews. This is anti-Semitic. It is similar to coming into the comments of a post about Ramadan and declaring that Muslims are terrorists.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
1. > It is a non sequitur that negatively generalizes $X as guilty of the actions committed by a very small subset of $X. This is anti-$X. Welcome to the Internet, and welcome to the club! This is a significant fraction of all social activity, it seems. People are into tribes, evidently. 2. This whole thing depends on how the relevant categories are perceived. I think things are different in Israel than they are in, say, the United States. In Israel, the ulta-orthodox are a distinct category, and mainstream/centrist/reform people will criticize them. In the United States, people see the categories from further away, and they blur together into "Jewish", which causes both anti-Semitism, and reflexive defense of "my people" (even if they are not actually your people). Second-generation kids from all manner of immigrant backgrounds have similar problems. They'll identify with extremist elements of "the homeland", because they think $MAJORITY/$NATIONALITY is the important dichotomy. When really, in the "homeland", there is some other political dichotomy which is actually important. And which they have been able to ignore, because they've lived in the United States. A good example is a particular generation of Irish-Americans, who supported the IRA. Current examples include ABCs and ABDs. The relationship between them and those who stayed is complicated. Eventually the latter becomes a kind of mascot adopted by the former: "Notre Dame: The Fighting Irish!" The best cure for this is to let people spend time visiting "the homeland", so they can come to realize that they're not from there any more. This applies now to the situation in Israel. Peoples' allegiances are based on imagined categories, and those allegiances are not always reciprocated. 3. To emphasize my philosophical point: > It is similar to coming into the comments of a post about Ramadan and declaring that Muslims are terrorists. This implicitly requires an answer to the question: What -- or, I should say, Who -- is a Muslim? Who is a Jew? Who is a Gentile? This expands to every category. 4. Similar questions now plague the United States. Who is Of Color? What does it mean to be White? Are you Black or are you Kanye? There are a lot of boundaries. Circles cut around a collection of individuals, in the mind, to mark them.