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Given that it seems to be the case that the delta variant has had (at least partial) vaccine breakthrough ( https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/140858269579448

Given that it seems to be the case that the delta variant has had (at least partial) vaccine breakthrough ( https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1408582695794483204?s=19 https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1408582695794483204?s=1... ), this sounds about what I'd expect

yumraj 5y ago
And the CDC in the US allowed unmasked vaccinated people indoors, but no one wants to, or is allowed to, verify. I guess we’re just waiting for a 2nd wave in the US.
- sixothree 5y ago
  I wish we could be more like Australia. I'm straight up jealous whenever I talk to one of them.
  - donavanm 5y ago
    Uh, what? I’m in Sydney and as I write this it looks like we’re going in to full on metro outbreak and lockdown this weekend. For the third time, IIRC. The country’s vaccinated approximately no one, there’s been near zero entry or exits of the country for anyone who’s not rich/famous/a politician, it seems like half of the past year has had internal travel restrictions between states and metro areas. There appears to be no plan to systemically improve our situation before next year. Yes, we haven’t had mass deaths and hospitalizations. I’m very thankful I’ve been here instead of the US, or many other places. But dont pretend it’s some utopia that’s escaped the troubles of the last year.
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      The thing is you treat it seriously. We have triple the daily cases here in Berlin and are celebrating like it’s over.
    - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
      > Yes, we haven’t had mass deaths and hospitalizations. I wouldn’t expect so. You have 2/3 the population of California and almost the size of the USA (although populated all along the coasts). I also don’t agree with dude it’s some Covid utopia. But, just density-wise it was never going to be very bad there.
      - sixothree 5y ago
        Have you ever actually seen a map of Australia? Or pictures? What planet have you been on that makes this comment even reasonable?
    - sixothree 5y ago
      We have had 600,000+ recorded deaths. The actual number is likely greater than a million. In December when you you had a handful of deaths, we had one every three seconds. Every hour. Every day. For over a month. People go shopping with cough and fever. People gather with family and friends without any consideration whatsoever about the consequences. I had someone come to my house one day after two of his co-workers tested positive for covid. Zero considerations. It's an epidemic of stupidity here. You have absolutely no idea what it's like here.
  - logicchains 5y ago
    I'm Australian and eagerly looking for a second nationality. Australians aren't allowed to leave Australia, it's literally a prison island again. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly subject themselves to that.
    - sixothree 5y ago
      I haven't left the States in years.
- dboreham 5y ago
  They allowed unmasked vaccinated people indoors. Then all the unvaccinated people took their masks off, in effect lying about their status to everyone else.
  - yumraj 5y ago
    Yes, that is what I'd meant. I edited my comment to clarify. It's not just that unvaccinated people are lying, it's also that stores, and other places, are either not allowed to verify or don't want to verify - thereby putting all at risk.
nknealk 5y ago
The endpoints for vaccines are “does the person end up in the hospital and does the person die of COVID” not “does the person get infected”. To that end, the vaccines are still effective. From the original WSJ source [1]: “Analysis by England’s public-health agency suggests vaccines provide significant protection against Delta after two doses, reducing the risk of symptomatic illness by about 80% and the risk of hospitalization by around 96%. That is only slightly weaker than the protection vaccines confer against Alpha, also known as B.1.1.7.“ [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-warns-of-new-versions-of-delta-variant-spreading-11624621207?mod=hp_lead_pos5 https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-warns-of-new-versions-of-...
- macintux 5y ago
  Not disagreeing at all, but there's another question you didn't list: does the person shed the virus in sufficient quantities to infect others.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    Based on current developments in Israel (I'm from Israel) the answer is: yes Fully vaccinated Delta-variant carriers are infecting other fully vaccinated persons.
    - 0-_-0 5y ago
      In that case the virus can further evolve to get around vaccine indiced immunity, as Delta already has. Letting a virus spread among a vaccinated population is not exactly wise.
      - helge9210 5y ago
        > Letting a virus spread among a vaccinated population is not exactly wise. Wasn't this the whole point of vaccination: to allow virus circulation among vaccinated population without negative effects?
        5y ago
failwhaleshark 5y ago
The rare, fully-vaccinated, delta / delta plus breakthrough cases tend to be very mild. Anti-vaxxers are an existential threat to sane people because that's where variants are going to evolve that could defeat current vaccines. If we're going to "optimize" life for as "little risk as possible," then optimizing for the wrong things is inevitable. I can see WfH if commute times, costs-of-living, and 99% of coworkers are assholes, but then there's social interaction, facetime, and how are people going to get promoted if their effort goes unnoticed.
- slavboj 5y ago
  Please refrain from "existential threat" rhetoric unless you are in fact advocating for an eliminationist total war.
- hedora 5y ago
  In fairness to the anti-vaxxers (I have no sympathy for them), COVID-19 has crossed over to many mammal populations, and the scariest variants will almost certainly come from animals, not from anti-vaxxers. I say this because it leads me to view the situation less as a threat to my personal safety, and more like a mass Darwin Award candidate, or nature’s version of a voter registration purge. I’m eagerly awaiting the day when we can vaccinate young children against COVID.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > Anti-vaxxers are an existential threat to sane people I see what you did here. Lockdown psychosis is not a joke.

yumraj 5y ago

And the CDC in the US allowed unmasked vaccinated people indoors, but no one wants to, or is allowed to, verify. I guess we’re just waiting for a 2nd wave in the US.

sixothree 5y ago
I wish we could be more like Australia. I'm straight up jealous whenever I talk to one of them.
- donavanm 5y ago
  Uh, what? I’m in Sydney and as I write this it looks like we’re going in to full on metro outbreak and lockdown this weekend. For the third time, IIRC. The country’s vaccinated approximately no one, there’s been near zero entry or exits of the country for anyone who’s not rich/famous/a politician, it seems like half of the past year has had internal travel restrictions between states and metro areas. There appears to be no plan to systemically improve our situation before next year. Yes, we haven’t had mass deaths and hospitalizations. I’m very thankful I’ve been here instead of the US, or many other places. But dont pretend it’s some utopia that’s escaped the troubles of the last year.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    The thing is you treat it seriously. We have triple the daily cases here in Berlin and are celebrating like it’s over.
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    > Yes, we haven’t had mass deaths and hospitalizations. I wouldn’t expect so. You have 2/3 the population of California and almost the size of the USA (although populated all along the coasts). I also don’t agree with dude it’s some Covid utopia. But, just density-wise it was never going to be very bad there.
    - sixothree 5y ago
      Have you ever actually seen a map of Australia? Or pictures? What planet have you been on that makes this comment even reasonable?
  - sixothree 5y ago
    We have had 600,000+ recorded deaths. The actual number is likely greater than a million. In December when you you had a handful of deaths, we had one every three seconds. Every hour. Every day. For over a month. People go shopping with cough and fever. People gather with family and friends without any consideration whatsoever about the consequences. I had someone come to my house one day after two of his co-workers tested positive for covid. Zero considerations. It's an epidemic of stupidity here. You have absolutely no idea what it's like here.
- logicchains 5y ago
  I'm Australian and eagerly looking for a second nationality. Australians aren't allowed to leave Australia, it's literally a prison island again. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly subject themselves to that.
  - sixothree 5y ago
    I haven't left the States in years.
dboreham 5y ago
They allowed unmasked vaccinated people indoors. Then all the unvaccinated people took their masks off, in effect lying about their status to everyone else.
- yumraj 5y ago
  Yes, that is what I'd meant. I edited my comment to clarify. It's not just that unvaccinated people are lying, it's also that stores, and other places, are either not allowed to verify or don't want to verify - thereby putting all at risk.

nknealk 5y ago

The endpoints for vaccines are “does the person end up in the hospital and does the person die of COVID” not “does the person get infected”. To that end, the vaccines are still effective. From the original WSJ source [1]: “Analysis by England’s public-health agency suggests vaccines provide significant protection against Delta after two doses, reducing the risk of symptomatic illness by about 80% and the risk of hospitalization by around 96%. That is only slightly weaker than the protection vaccines confer against Alpha, also known as B.1.1.7.“ [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-warns-of-new-versions-of-delta-variant-spreading-11624621207?mod=hp_lead_pos5 https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-warns-of-new-versions-of-...

macintux 5y ago
Not disagreeing at all, but there's another question you didn't list: does the person shed the virus in sufficient quantities to infect others.
- helge9210 5y ago
  Based on current developments in Israel (I'm from Israel) the answer is: yes Fully vaccinated Delta-variant carriers are infecting other fully vaccinated persons.
  - 0-_-0 5y ago
    In that case the virus can further evolve to get around vaccine indiced immunity, as Delta already has. Letting a virus spread among a vaccinated population is not exactly wise.
    - helge9210 5y ago
      > Letting a virus spread among a vaccinated population is not exactly wise. Wasn't this the whole point of vaccination: to allow virus circulation among vaccinated population without negative effects?
      - 5y ago

failwhaleshark 5y ago

The rare, fully-vaccinated, delta / delta plus breakthrough cases tend to be very mild. Anti-vaxxers are an existential threat to sane people because that's where variants are going to evolve that could defeat current vaccines. If we're going to "optimize" life for as "little risk as possible," then optimizing for the wrong things is inevitable. I can see WfH if commute times, costs-of-living, and 99% of coworkers are assholes, but then there's social interaction, facetime, and how are people going to get promoted if their effort goes unnoticed.

slavboj 5y ago
Please refrain from "existential threat" rhetoric unless you are in fact advocating for an eliminationist total war.
hedora 5y ago
In fairness to the anti-vaxxers (I have no sympathy for them), COVID-19 has crossed over to many mammal populations, and the scariest variants will almost certainly come from animals, not from anti-vaxxers. I say this because it leads me to view the situation less as a threat to my personal safety, and more like a mass Darwin Award candidate, or nature’s version of a voter registration purge. I’m eagerly awaiting the day when we can vaccinate young children against COVID.
helge9210 5y ago
> Anti-vaxxers are an existential threat to sane people I see what you did here. Lockdown psychosis is not a joke.