10 ms·

I was quite literally obsessed with programming. I would wake up in the morning, program all day, go to sleep, and repeat it the next day. This earned me many a

by mymanz 5y ago

I was quite literally obsessed with programming. I would wake up in the morning, program all day, go to sleep, and repeat it the next day. This earned me many accolades in college and a great job afterward. But, like you, if I paused for a moment to reflect, I felt so incredibly empty and alone. The programming increasingly became an escapist activity to avoid these feelings. Then one day my old high school friend, whom I had not seen in many years, invited me to spend time with his friends from the Air Force. Stepping outside of my bubble was incredibly refreshing. None of these people knew anything, nor cared, about computers or programming. Wow! What was the point of everything I was doing? This thing I spent so much time on, truly the focus of my life, and these people do not even care one bit about it. How can they even live? Lol. I then decided to take the whole thing MUCH less seriously and branch out into all kinds of areas. Here are things to consider doing - drastically reduce the amount of time you spend behind a screen (even immediately throw away a lot of math/science/etc paraphernalia) - join a regular gym - start lifting weights - join a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym - sincerely evaluate your style of dress (do you give off a feminine-milquetoast or masculine vibe) visit Reddit, etc for ideas - if you are a gamer, immediately stop - sign up for volunteering / toastmasters / improv class / races / all varieties of dancing / meetups / doordash / Uber driver (point being, meet more people, put yourself out there way more)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sergiomattei 5y ago
This is it, enough said. You must learn to love yourself. It's a difficult road but it's arguably the most important one you'll ever take.
Cyph0n 5y ago
> if you are a gamer, immediately stop Hard disagree there. Yes, gaming can be addicting, but that is also the case with basically all habits. If you easily get addicted to games, then I would suggest sticking to shorter single-player games. I would add reading (fiction or non-programming books) and traveling to the list of things to spend more time and money on.
- SkyMarshal 5y ago
  Gaming can have positive and negative effects. On the positive side, it can sometimes provide people with a needed social outlet, at least if it's an online social game. It can also sometimes stimulate a mind that's depressed and lethargic, giving it a much needed jump-start so to speak which carries over into other productive tasks. Conversely, it can get you addicted to and dependent on quick and easy dopamine hits, killing your ability to focus for extended durations needed for any kind of productive work. It can also cause mental fatigue that makes committing to or completing non-trivial tasks difficult or impossible. Gamers have to be aware of both effects, and honest with themselves about which are occurring, and willing to change their behavior if they observe the negative ones. And I /second reading and traveling as better uses of time and money.
  - CTDOCodebases 5y ago
    10 "Reality sucks Im going to escape it via gaming." 20 "Gaming is fun but it isn't improving my reality." 30 "Improving my reality doesn't feel fun at all." 40 GOTO 10 This cycle was all too real for me. But like you said it is neither positive or negative. It depends entirely on the individual.
    - imvetri 5y ago
      Nope. Reality sucks - then step forward and face it.
    - dlsa 5y ago
      The hard branch back to the start is a perfect indicator of dysfunction. I think the best way to sum up the very negative aspects of gaming is their fake progress. To use the 4 quadrant model, gaming usually belongs in the not-important quadrant with mostly not-urgent. But most game environments create their own 4 quadrant sub world. The issue then appears because those urgent and important and the various combinations thereof then mess with the real reward systems. The game world is temporarily real enough due to immersion so it becomes real. Your real reward systems light up and take action: More! Do this! So you do. So the game gives your brain all sorts of these varied set ups where the quadrants apply and you have to prioritise. You make successful decisions and your reward systems kick in. The game says, "here is a problem that exists". You solve it and your brain, unable to really tell the difference says "ok we need to do more of that". So it allocates resources to improve. And you do. But its all fake. Fake progress. Fake accomplishments. Because its all fake, the reward centers get messed up. You know its fake. But your brain isn't great at really knowing fully that its fake. Regardless, you're now spending resources solving the game instead of the real world. The rewards become twisted as weak form punishments. Every time you realise that in the real world you arent progressing as much as you could you are effectively punished again. None of this says you cannot play games or that they are not helpful. But like all escapes, its important to not close the door back to reality. Otherwise they become prisons.
dlsa 5y ago
Good advice. People can definitely fall into the intellectual pit. They then abuse intellectual pursuits to distance themselves from reality. Fake challenges, fake problems, fake solutions, fake progress. If they later reconnect with reality, they discover they can use their intellect and physicality to solve real problems for real people. Along the way they connect to those real people and the very much broader reality in general. Often resulting in interesting stories to tell as well. None of this is actually anti-intellectual or anti-programming.
nyanpasu64 5y ago
> sincerely evaluate your style of dress (do you give off a feminine-milquetoast or masculine vibe) visit Reddit, etc for ideas Are you making a value judgment on which style is right and wrong?
- nomdep 5y ago
  None are “right” or “wrong”. It’s about being “effective” at projecting the image one is striving for.
  - swader999 5y ago
    I would say ill fitting is definitely wrong.
- blindmute 5y ago
  This kind of subjectivist ideology in everything is what makes young men depressed in the first place. Yes, there is a way to dress that will improve your life, and there is a way to dress that won't, and it is not subjective within a culture. Pretending that anyone can just do anything and be anything, including undesirable, and be perfectly happy and fulfilled, is just a cope.
pugets 5y ago
I can't understate how much a fitness program and a proper wardrobe can turn your life around. In college I learned how to dress myself, how to layer, how to buy shirts that fit, etc. and after college I lost a lot of weight. Hoo boy. I became an entirely different person. If I knew I looked this good under all my baby fat, I would have started dieting 10 years prior. To all the young men out there in particular... live up to your potential, man. You're only going to be in your 20s once. You don't want to spend it all waddling around in cargo shorts with messy hair. Lose the weight, lift some barbells, eat more protein, buy a Seiko, iron your work shirt, layer your clothes, try a skincare routine, and look as good as you possibly can. You'll become more confident, and people love confidence, so you'll be even more liked.
haswell 5y ago
I’d like to slightly counter the enthusiastic responses to this comment. First, I do think there’s value to much of what you’re saying. With that said, if time spent writing code is becoming an escapist activity, and if one is escaping from sufficiently dark demons, consider speaking with a therapist as well. I realize this will not apply to all readers, but the trouble with this advice starts if there is depression involved. “Just be more positive”, “Just stop doing the things that currently make you feel safe and a bit more ok”. Until you address the root cause, it’s going to be difficult to implement these changes effectively. And if you do, you might find a happy medium (I’m getting closer every day), where programming or gaming is just a thing I love (and continue to do), and not something I have to use to escape.
- koonsolo 5y ago
  Sedetary lifestyle might be the root cause, so the advice is probably spot on.
  - haswell 5y ago
    I agree, and I allow for that possibility in my comment.
- afarviral 5y ago
  Was going to say the same thing: Immediately stopping things you enjoy, find comforting and are presumably good at (or experienced with at least), and in addition to starting new things that require extreme willpower to do (e.g. workout routines, intense social engagements, new hobbies that are not current interests)... That sort of thinking has personally been disastrous for me, or at best a very iterative process with a lot of failure and insecurity build in to it. I would always advocate to start slow with things, build off routines, take the occasional leap...sure...you have to to make any significant change, but take some small wins and build off of those. I'd worry someone reading that advice might be inclined to do everything in the extremes (as indicated) and suffer a breakdown or merely cement themselves in thinking they've been defeated. Maybe years from now is actually the best time for you to make that change, or meet that someone. Or maybe you just need to give up screens one or two days ... a week?
brailsafe 5y ago
One of the tricky things about this from my own perspective, after having stopped giving a shit about web dev and to a lesser extent programming, is how do you continue to give enough of a shit to actually do a job? It's almost all worthless trash advertising or pointless middlemen products. How do you rebuild after realizing that it's just not worth the intense energy it sometimes requires?
- ljf 5y ago
  It isn't as easy as it sounds I know, but find a job you love. What passions do you have in life? Where can you work that will scratch at least a tiny part of that itch? I had a friend who hatred coding again, but got a job doing we dev for a vegan charity and that was it, he was back in the room since animal welfare was a major passion of his. Find what it is you love (or at least like) and a job that will give you at least a small portion of that.
  - brailsafe 5y ago
    I like the advice. Thanks
Anonashtonian 5y ago
There is a lot of toxicity here and I think this is a good example of part of the problem. We have been injecting pc tolerance everywhere with little to no focus on men. Why can't I wear feminine esk clothing like a thumb ring. Men are unable to express themselves with dress or emotionally without being considered unattractive..
- sodality2 5y ago
  OP did not say anything negative about dressing femininely. OP said "sincerely evaluate your style of dress".
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    The advice does play into classic masculine stereotypes though. Almost like a movie trope where the hopeless nerd finds out he really was a cool jock the entire time. Throw away your nerdy shit, get ripped in the gym, learn martial arts and dress well. All that’s fine if that’s what you want but I don’t think it’s particularly aspirational for everyone. Even if elements like regular exercise and broadened activities are pretty universal good advice. It’s also of it’s time and reading this feels like a lot of the advice givers are quite a bit older. The generation in their early twenties have different social mores and aspirations. And hard as it may be to learn even ripped dudes that are snappy dressers can be depressed and can feel stuck in life.
    - KronisLV 5y ago
      Agreed. I guess better advice in regards to clothing would be to find something that fits you and that you feel good in. Masculine, feminine or something between, looking into the mirror and seeing clothes that look good is sure to be a small ego boost and other people might also treat you better in some subtle ways (basically the halo effect). As for exercise, not everyone needs to get "ripped", but some exercise is likely to benefit everyone - from better cardiovascular health, to just feeling like you have more energy, as well as getting to a more healthy weight. Admittedly, that's why I've been jogging 3km every day for the last month in addition to strength training, and while I felt horrible the first week, things are better now. Some of the other advice ends up being a tad too drastic, though. Stopping doing science/maths probably isn't good idea - maybe just slightly decrease the amount of time you spend on them instead? The amount of time spent gaming should also be controlled, but quitting "cold turkey" could be harmful. For some people it's a way to cope with bad situations or socialize - take away that escapism and you'll be left dealing with all of the other bad aspects of life with no outlet. Martial arts and joining social groups all seem like good idea, but for the more introverted folks it might actually make them feel worse. Maybe try going to a few meetups at first instead? As for Tinder and social media - those might lead to you comparing yourself to others too much, which often isn't entirely healthy. Also, dating apps in general don't work for many guys due to societal factors.

by mymanz 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sergiomattei 5y ago

This is it, enough said. You must learn to love yourself. It's a difficult road but it's arguably the most important one you'll ever take.

Cyph0n 5y ago

> if you are a gamer, immediately stop Hard disagree there. Yes, gaming can be addicting, but that is also the case with basically all habits. If you easily get addicted to games, then I would suggest sticking to shorter single-player games. I would add reading (fiction or non-programming books) and traveling to the list of things to spend more time and money on.

SkyMarshal 5y ago
Gaming can have positive and negative effects. On the positive side, it can sometimes provide people with a needed social outlet, at least if it's an online social game. It can also sometimes stimulate a mind that's depressed and lethargic, giving it a much needed jump-start so to speak which carries over into other productive tasks. Conversely, it can get you addicted to and dependent on quick and easy dopamine hits, killing your ability to focus for extended durations needed for any kind of productive work. It can also cause mental fatigue that makes committing to or completing non-trivial tasks difficult or impossible. Gamers have to be aware of both effects, and honest with themselves about which are occurring, and willing to change their behavior if they observe the negative ones. And I /second reading and traveling as better uses of time and money.
- CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  10 "Reality sucks Im going to escape it via gaming." 20 "Gaming is fun but it isn't improving my reality." 30 "Improving my reality doesn't feel fun at all." 40 GOTO 10 This cycle was all too real for me. But like you said it is neither positive or negative. It depends entirely on the individual.
  - imvetri 5y ago
    Nope. Reality sucks - then step forward and face it.
  - dlsa 5y ago
    The hard branch back to the start is a perfect indicator of dysfunction. I think the best way to sum up the very negative aspects of gaming is their fake progress. To use the 4 quadrant model, gaming usually belongs in the not-important quadrant with mostly not-urgent. But most game environments create their own 4 quadrant sub world. The issue then appears because those urgent and important and the various combinations thereof then mess with the real reward systems. The game world is temporarily real enough due to immersion so it becomes real. Your real reward systems light up and take action: More! Do this! So you do. So the game gives your brain all sorts of these varied set ups where the quadrants apply and you have to prioritise. You make successful decisions and your reward systems kick in. The game says, "here is a problem that exists". You solve it and your brain, unable to really tell the difference says "ok we need to do more of that". So it allocates resources to improve. And you do. But its all fake. Fake progress. Fake accomplishments. Because its all fake, the reward centers get messed up. You know its fake. But your brain isn't great at really knowing fully that its fake. Regardless, you're now spending resources solving the game instead of the real world. The rewards become twisted as weak form punishments. Every time you realise that in the real world you arent progressing as much as you could you are effectively punished again. None of this says you cannot play games or that they are not helpful. But like all escapes, its important to not close the door back to reality. Otherwise they become prisons.

dlsa 5y ago

Good advice. People can definitely fall into the intellectual pit. They then abuse intellectual pursuits to distance themselves from reality. Fake challenges, fake problems, fake solutions, fake progress. If they later reconnect with reality, they discover they can use their intellect and physicality to solve real problems for real people. Along the way they connect to those real people and the very much broader reality in general. Often resulting in interesting stories to tell as well. None of this is actually anti-intellectual or anti-programming.

nyanpasu64 5y ago

> sincerely evaluate your style of dress (do you give off a feminine-milquetoast or masculine vibe) visit Reddit, etc for ideas Are you making a value judgment on which style is right and wrong?

nomdep 5y ago
None are “right” or “wrong”. It’s about being “effective” at projecting the image one is striving for.
- swader999 5y ago
  I would say ill fitting is definitely wrong.
blindmute 5y ago
This kind of subjectivist ideology in everything is what makes young men depressed in the first place. Yes, there is a way to dress that will improve your life, and there is a way to dress that won't, and it is not subjective within a culture. Pretending that anyone can just do anything and be anything, including undesirable, and be perfectly happy and fulfilled, is just a cope.

pugets 5y ago

I can't understate how much a fitness program and a proper wardrobe can turn your life around. In college I learned how to dress myself, how to layer, how to buy shirts that fit, etc. and after college I lost a lot of weight. Hoo boy. I became an entirely different person. If I knew I looked this good under all my baby fat, I would have started dieting 10 years prior. To all the young men out there in particular... live up to your potential, man. You're only going to be in your 20s once. You don't want to spend it all waddling around in cargo shorts with messy hair. Lose the weight, lift some barbells, eat more protein, buy a Seiko, iron your work shirt, layer your clothes, try a skincare routine, and look as good as you possibly can. You'll become more confident, and people love confidence, so you'll be even more liked.

haswell 5y ago

I’d like to slightly counter the enthusiastic responses to this comment. First, I do think there’s value to much of what you’re saying. With that said, if time spent writing code is becoming an escapist activity, and if one is escaping from sufficiently dark demons, consider speaking with a therapist as well. I realize this will not apply to all readers, but the trouble with this advice starts if there is depression involved. “Just be more positive”, “Just stop doing the things that currently make you feel safe and a bit more ok”. Until you address the root cause, it’s going to be difficult to implement these changes effectively. And if you do, you might find a happy medium (I’m getting closer every day), where programming or gaming is just a thing I love (and continue to do), and not something I have to use to escape.

koonsolo 5y ago
Sedetary lifestyle might be the root cause, so the advice is probably spot on.
- haswell 5y ago
  I agree, and I allow for that possibility in my comment.
afarviral 5y ago
Was going to say the same thing: Immediately stopping things you enjoy, find comforting and are presumably good at (or experienced with at least), and in addition to starting new things that require extreme willpower to do (e.g. workout routines, intense social engagements, new hobbies that are not current interests)... That sort of thinking has personally been disastrous for me, or at best a very iterative process with a lot of failure and insecurity build in to it. I would always advocate to start slow with things, build off routines, take the occasional leap...sure...you have to to make any significant change, but take some small wins and build off of those. I'd worry someone reading that advice might be inclined to do everything in the extremes (as indicated) and suffer a breakdown or merely cement themselves in thinking they've been defeated. Maybe years from now is actually the best time for you to make that change, or meet that someone. Or maybe you just need to give up screens one or two days ... a week?

brailsafe 5y ago

One of the tricky things about this from my own perspective, after having stopped giving a shit about web dev and to a lesser extent programming, is how do you continue to give enough of a shit to actually do a job? It's almost all worthless trash advertising or pointless middlemen products. How do you rebuild after realizing that it's just not worth the intense energy it sometimes requires?

ljf 5y ago
It isn't as easy as it sounds I know, but find a job you love. What passions do you have in life? Where can you work that will scratch at least a tiny part of that itch? I had a friend who hatred coding again, but got a job doing we dev for a vegan charity and that was it, he was back in the room since animal welfare was a major passion of his. Find what it is you love (or at least like) and a job that will give you at least a small portion of that.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  I like the advice. Thanks

Anonashtonian 5y ago

There is a lot of toxicity here and I think this is a good example of part of the problem. We have been injecting pc tolerance everywhere with little to no focus on men. Why can't I wear feminine esk clothing like a thumb ring. Men are unable to express themselves with dress or emotionally without being considered unattractive..

sodality2 5y ago
OP did not say anything negative about dressing femininely. OP said "sincerely evaluate your style of dress".
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  The advice does play into classic masculine stereotypes though. Almost like a movie trope where the hopeless nerd finds out he really was a cool jock the entire time. Throw away your nerdy shit, get ripped in the gym, learn martial arts and dress well. All that’s fine if that’s what you want but I don’t think it’s particularly aspirational for everyone. Even if elements like regular exercise and broadened activities are pretty universal good advice. It’s also of it’s time and reading this feels like a lot of the advice givers are quite a bit older. The generation in their early twenties have different social mores and aspirations. And hard as it may be to learn even ripped dudes that are snappy dressers can be depressed and can feel stuck in life.
  - KronisLV 5y ago
    Agreed. I guess better advice in regards to clothing would be to find something that fits you and that you feel good in. Masculine, feminine or something between, looking into the mirror and seeing clothes that look good is sure to be a small ego boost and other people might also treat you better in some subtle ways (basically the halo effect). As for exercise, not everyone needs to get "ripped", but some exercise is likely to benefit everyone - from better cardiovascular health, to just feeling like you have more energy, as well as getting to a more healthy weight. Admittedly, that's why I've been jogging 3km every day for the last month in addition to strength training, and while I felt horrible the first week, things are better now. Some of the other advice ends up being a tad too drastic, though. Stopping doing science/maths probably isn't good idea - maybe just slightly decrease the amount of time you spend on them instead? The amount of time spent gaming should also be controlled, but quitting "cold turkey" could be harmful. For some people it's a way to cope with bad situations or socialize - take away that escapism and you'll be left dealing with all of the other bad aspects of life with no outlet. Martial arts and joining social groups all seem like good idea, but for the more introverted folks it might actually make them feel worse. Maybe try going to a few meetups at first instead? As for Tinder and social media - those might lead to you comparing yourself to others too much, which often isn't entirely healthy. Also, dating apps in general don't work for many guys due to societal factors.