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> The ACCESS Act mandates that big tech firms have to make their systems open to competitors and business rivals, in the same way that AT&T customers can talk t

> The ACCESS Act mandates that big tech firms have to make their systems open to competitors and business rivals, in the same way that AT&T customers can talk to T-Mobile customers, or users of different email systems can communicate with one another. Okay, this is plausible, but it can turn into all kinds of mess as federated systems aren't simpler to design, build, or operate. For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? They'd have to do a matrix.org style bridges, which is going to be super tricky to maintain, at their scale. Hardware is doomed: USB-C for all inter-connects... > The merger bill makes it harder for big tech firms to buy rivals. Well, the race to $2T market cap just got harder. Can get behind this. I can do without Zuck in my WhatsApp, or Satya in my GitHub. Such a restriction may, instead, result in a marked increase in venture investments from BigTech, which may not be as bad a thing, after all? > The nondiscrimination bill is intended to ban the ability to big tech firms to preference their own products, the way Google substitutes its own reviews for Yelp reviews, even if Yelp’s reviews are better. Much needed. Looking at you "Amazon's choice". > The break-up bill is supposed to split apart big tech firms by prohibiting platforms from owning any line of business that uses that platform. Affects tech companies ranging from AWS and Stripe to platforms like Android and iOS? This bill can be the straw that breaks the camel's back, imo, if they get the details right. Either the incumbents remain entrenched because of the loopholes, or they no longer wield undue advantage, leaving some breathing room for upstarts. Unsure if this is good or bad for software engineers. They've enjoyed higher salaries for a while on the back of some of the most ridiculous growth ever seen, driven in no part by unabated monopolistic practices. > And that is truly stunning. Indeed.

ehnto 5y ago
> Hardware is doomed: USB-C for all inter-connects... I am down for a standard, it doesn't matter which one it is, so long as it's consistent. Mostly it's for power distribution, I want every single one of my devices to be able to draw from a USB battery bank.
UncleOxidant 5y ago
> Either the incumbents remain entrenched because of the loopholes, or they would no longer wield undue advantage, leaving some breathing room for upstarts. Unsure if this is good or bad for software engineers. There are always unintended consequences, but it seems like it would be good in that if there are more upstarts there should also be more jobs for software engineers. The pay may (probably) won't be like what it is in FAANG companies, but not everyone can work for a FAANG company.
- ehnto 5y ago
  Not everyone would want to work at a FAANG company either. I have quietly hoped for a redistribution of software resources for a while, it's not a practically thought out hope. I just feel like the worlds software talent could do better work in more interesting and varied fields. I also think it would lead to more innovation. How many engineers aren't working on their own ideas because the insane salaries at big tech would be stupid to give up? I don't blame someone on 200-500k a year for just sitting tight and soaking up the dollars. 500k a year is as much or more than a successful small business owner, and you don't have to take on any of the risk.
  - UncleOxidant 5y ago
    As someone who has never worked for a FAANG company, nor wants to (FB recruiter email I got this morning will go unanswered) the mind boggles at these $200K-$500K salaries. If I were making a salary in that range I'd think it would be possible to retire after about 5 years if one was frugal. > I just feel like the worlds software talent could do better work in more interesting and varied fields. Agreed, but I'm not sure how these measures will do anything to provide more interesting work. It would probably just be more of the same, but more different companies doing it.
    - Workaccount2 5y ago
      >If I were making a salary in that range I'd think it would be possible to retire after about 5 years if one was frugal. We have our fair share of 30 something's on here already eyeing their exit. Nice mountain home, fun side projects, and perhaps some consulting here or there.
    - Hydraulix989 5y ago
      Taxes take a decent chunk out of it.
rpmisms 5y ago
> For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? I think a judge is going to have to do a lot of homework on this law to come up with a realistic interpretation.
vlovich123 5y ago
Does the ACCESS act require sane pricing/lack of technical hurdles? For example, AirPlay requires HW chips that aren’t actually needed and could be done in SW. This gives Apple a non trivial economic advantage in the BOM of their products.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jasode 5y ago
>as federated systems aren't simpler to design or build. For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? You may have used Signal as a random example but as side trivia... The non-profit Signal Foundation's Moxie Marlinspike did not want others to federate with Signal servers: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... He said others could re-use the Signal source code and create their own ecosystems but to not federate with Signal's servers. He cited costs was one issue.
cobookman 5y ago
> how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? Couldn't you use Public Key Cryptography? Kind of like what we've done for encryption between the Web Browser and Service Provider using PKI+TLS (HTTPS). Such-as...say each chat network having a certificate authority which crypto-signs each end-user's Public Key. With PKI used to encrypt messages between users. A 4096 PKI key can transmit 4KiB of data, which should be enough for most chat networks. For attachments or very large messages, can just copy how TLS uses PKI to transmit an AES key for decrypting a larger payload. The user's Private Key(s) can remain on phone/browser. To keep traffic e2e encrypted.
idiotsecant 5y ago
>For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? Would it be the worst thing if these went away and were replaced with open protocols that do the same thing? I say go back to systems that work together and tear down the walled gardens.
Jcowell 5y ago
>> > The nondiscrimination bill is intended to ban the ability to big tech firms to preference their own products, the way Google substitutes its own reviews for Yelp reviews, even if Yelp’s reviews are better. Oh god please no. I’ve been waiting years for Apple Maps to lose drop the gosh forsaken existence that is Yelp into a burning sun.
- heed 5y ago
  They’ve started to: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/apple-maps-ratings-places-interest-us/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/apple-maps-ratings-plac...
tsimionescu 5y ago
> Okay, this is plausible, but it can turn into all kinds of mess as federated systems aren't simpler to design, build, or operate. For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? They'd have to do a matrix.org style bridges, which is going to be super tricky to maintain, at their scale. Hardware is doomed: USB-C for all inter-connects... I think the fact that federated systems are harder to design and maintain is exactly the reason we need legislation enforcing this. It is extremely important for the benefit of humanity that communication between us is not beholden to one private company. This is basically where we are with Facebook at the moment, for the majority of the Earth's population (except China). For example, if you get banned from Facebook and whatsapp, in large parts of the world you will unable to communicate online with friends and businesses.

ehnto 5y ago

> Hardware is doomed: USB-C for all inter-connects... I am down for a standard, it doesn't matter which one it is, so long as it's consistent. Mostly it's for power distribution, I want every single one of my devices to be able to draw from a USB battery bank.

UncleOxidant 5y ago

> Either the incumbents remain entrenched because of the loopholes, or they would no longer wield undue advantage, leaving some breathing room for upstarts. Unsure if this is good or bad for software engineers. There are always unintended consequences, but it seems like it would be good in that if there are more upstarts there should also be more jobs for software engineers. The pay may (probably) won't be like what it is in FAANG companies, but not everyone can work for a FAANG company.

ehnto 5y ago
Not everyone would want to work at a FAANG company either. I have quietly hoped for a redistribution of software resources for a while, it's not a practically thought out hope. I just feel like the worlds software talent could do better work in more interesting and varied fields. I also think it would lead to more innovation. How many engineers aren't working on their own ideas because the insane salaries at big tech would be stupid to give up? I don't blame someone on 200-500k a year for just sitting tight and soaking up the dollars. 500k a year is as much or more than a successful small business owner, and you don't have to take on any of the risk.
- UncleOxidant 5y ago
  As someone who has never worked for a FAANG company, nor wants to (FB recruiter email I got this morning will go unanswered) the mind boggles at these $200K-$500K salaries. If I were making a salary in that range I'd think it would be possible to retire after about 5 years if one was frugal. > I just feel like the worlds software talent could do better work in more interesting and varied fields. Agreed, but I'm not sure how these measures will do anything to provide more interesting work. It would probably just be more of the same, but more different companies doing it.
  - Workaccount2 5y ago
    >If I were making a salary in that range I'd think it would be possible to retire after about 5 years if one was frugal. We have our fair share of 30 something's on here already eyeing their exit. Nice mountain home, fun side projects, and perhaps some consulting here or there.
  - Hydraulix989 5y ago
    Taxes take a decent chunk out of it.

rpmisms 5y ago

> For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? I think a judge is going to have to do a lot of homework on this law to come up with a realistic interpretation.

vlovich123 5y ago

Does the ACCESS act require sane pricing/lack of technical hurdles? For example, AirPlay requires HW chips that aren’t actually needed and could be done in SW. This gives Apple a non trivial economic advantage in the BOM of their products.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jasode 5y ago

>as federated systems aren't simpler to design or build. For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? You may have used Signal as a random example but as side trivia... The non-profit Signal Foundation's Moxie Marlinspike did not want others to federate with Signal servers: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... He said others could re-use the Signal source code and create their own ecosystems but to not federate with Signal's servers. He cited costs was one issue.

cobookman 5y ago

> how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? Couldn't you use Public Key Cryptography? Kind of like what we've done for encryption between the Web Browser and Service Provider using PKI+TLS (HTTPS). Such-as...say each chat network having a certificate authority which crypto-signs each end-user's Public Key. With PKI used to encrypt messages between users. A 4096 PKI key can transmit 4KiB of data, which should be enough for most chat networks. For attachments or very large messages, can just copy how TLS uses PKI to transmit an AES key for decrypting a larger payload. The user's Private Key(s) can remain on phone/browser. To keep traffic e2e encrypted.

idiotsecant 5y ago

>For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? Would it be the worst thing if these went away and were replaced with open protocols that do the same thing? I say go back to systems that work together and tear down the walled gardens.

Jcowell 5y ago

>> > The nondiscrimination bill is intended to ban the ability to big tech firms to preference their own products, the way Google substitutes its own reviews for Yelp reviews, even if Yelp’s reviews are better. Oh god please no. I’ve been waiting years for Apple Maps to lose drop the gosh forsaken existence that is Yelp into a burning sun.

heed 5y ago
They’ve started to: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/apple-maps-ratings-places-interest-us/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/22/apple-maps-ratings-plac...

tsimionescu 5y ago

> Okay, this is plausible, but it can turn into all kinds of mess as federated systems aren't simpler to design, build, or operate. For example, how would Signal inter-communicate with e2ee intact with say, Facebook Messenger? They'd have to do a matrix.org style bridges, which is going to be super tricky to maintain, at their scale. Hardware is doomed: USB-C for all inter-connects... I think the fact that federated systems are harder to design and maintain is exactly the reason we need legislation enforcing this. It is extremely important for the benefit of humanity that communication between us is not beholden to one private company. This is basically where we are with Facebook at the moment, for the majority of the Earth's population (except China). For example, if you get banned from Facebook and whatsapp, in large parts of the world you will unable to communicate online with friends and businesses.