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I know the majority opinion in the US is "less rules is good", but as a counter point: European consumer protection laws prohibit this, if you can sign up onlin

I know the majority opinion in the US is "less rules is good", but as a counter point: European consumer protection laws prohibit this, if you can sign up online it's mandatory to offer online cancellation without extra hurdles. Sometimes having some rules is a good thing...

eindiran 5y ago
I want to hit that sweet spot where my bad behavior is unconstrained by the rules but everyone else's bad behavior is.
8ytecoder 5y ago
Europe also goes through the pain of developing rules and laws that are incredibly detailed and specific. US just doesn't have that culture. The law will be vague and it'll require at least a few lawsuits before it gets settled as to what they actually mean. This and the general misuse of lawsuits (I mean "Do not iron while wearing the shirt") here is why people are against laws.
- Bayart 5y ago
  That's the different between Civil and Common Law. Common law also has its good points. It's more flexible and grows organically. Whereas Civil Law is more rigorous and programmatic.
erdo 5y ago
That's interesting if true, because my gym in France (Neoness) just made me turn up in person to cancel my rolling monthly subscription, despite the fact that I signed up on line. (Obviously I will never, ever be giving them my money again regardless)
- Bayart 5y ago
  As far as I'm aware the letter of the law is you can cancel with a formal letter (lettre recommandée avec accusé de réception), and that's the most bothersome it should ever get. They shouldn't have the right to ask that of you, and it's likely they're just taking advantage of people.
gumoro 5y ago
Do you have a reference for that? Struggling to find one, and very interested.
- t0mas88 5y ago
  Here is an English version of something the Dutch regulator wrote: https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/acm-consumers-should-be-able-cancel-online-any-subscriptions-have-been-taken-out-online https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/acm-consumers-should-be-a... And the English version of the government website about it: https://business.gov.nl/regulation/automatic-renewal-subscription/ https://business.gov.nl/regulation/automatic-renewal-subscri... Which says: "Consumers must be able to cancel their agreement in exactly the same way as they signed up for them." As well as disallowing an automatic fixed term renewal. After an initial contract the customer must be allowed to cancel at any point not just yearly. This one had a big impact on the telecom industry a couple of years ago.

eindiran 5y ago

I want to hit that sweet spot where my bad behavior is unconstrained by the rules but everyone else's bad behavior is.

8ytecoder 5y ago

Europe also goes through the pain of developing rules and laws that are incredibly detailed and specific. US just doesn't have that culture. The law will be vague and it'll require at least a few lawsuits before it gets settled as to what they actually mean. This and the general misuse of lawsuits (I mean "Do not iron while wearing the shirt") here is why people are against laws.

Bayart 5y ago
That's the different between Civil and Common Law. Common law also has its good points. It's more flexible and grows organically. Whereas Civil Law is more rigorous and programmatic.

erdo 5y ago

That's interesting if true, because my gym in France (Neoness) just made me turn up in person to cancel my rolling monthly subscription, despite the fact that I signed up on line. (Obviously I will never, ever be giving them my money again regardless)

Bayart 5y ago
As far as I'm aware the letter of the law is you can cancel with a formal letter (lettre recommandée avec accusé de réception), and that's the most bothersome it should ever get. They shouldn't have the right to ask that of you, and it's likely they're just taking advantage of people.

gumoro 5y ago

Do you have a reference for that? Struggling to find one, and very interested.

t0mas88 5y ago
Here is an English version of something the Dutch regulator wrote: https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/acm-consumers-should-be-able-cancel-online-any-subscriptions-have-been-taken-out-online https://www.acm.nl/en/publications/acm-consumers-should-be-a... And the English version of the government website about it: https://business.gov.nl/regulation/automatic-renewal-subscription/ https://business.gov.nl/regulation/automatic-renewal-subscri... Which says: "Consumers must be able to cancel their agreement in exactly the same way as they signed up for them." As well as disallowing an automatic fixed term renewal. After an initial contract the customer must be allowed to cancel at any point not just yearly. This one had a big impact on the telecom industry a couple of years ago.