4 ms·

Lots of trans people in fact are mentally ill. Given the additional stresses and oppresive social experiences trans people face and are outspoken about, this i

by zepto 5y ago

Lots of trans people in fact are mentally ill. Given the additional stresses and oppresive social experiences trans people face and are outspoken about, this is entirely unsurprising.

bingidingi 5y ago
Sure, but this isn't an article about the mental health issues faced by trans people, it's an article about mental illness' role on the internet that uses DID, BPD, and trans people as the primary example of mental illness.
jandrese 5y ago
Mental health in relation to sexual identity is a massive minefield in online discussion. As soon as you go down that path you are in the realm of "curing" trans people of their mental illnesses, aka literally Hitler. It doesn't matter what you're actually saying, the only thing very online people are going to read is how you want to eliminate deviant sexual identity with medicine.
- amznthrwaway 5y ago
  And very online people like you whine and cry about how you’re the real victims if anybody critiques any aspects of your ideas, or probes your motives. Because very online white male people are so ensconced in privilege that they not only demand to be able to say any thought that comes into their head; you are such entitled little princesses that you must be able to say it without anybody ever being even slightly mean to you in reply. And then, comically, whiny, thin-skinned little losers like yourself call other people snowflakes and characterize them poorly, without ever realizing what an absolute hypocrite you are.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  amznthrwaway: If you read this, know you are shadowbanned - only certain people can see your content. I can only guess it has something to do with being a bigot and not just wishing for people to die, but directly wishing for the parents of fellow posters here to die. You claim to have been shadow-banned before (I know I was, many years ago) but somehow, you don't know you've been banned for the past two months. And somehow you don't realize how unacceptable it is to criticize and insult racial groups and all members within it simply because of their skin color, no matter the color.
  - dang 5y ago
    You've broken the site guidelines, which say: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls. Obviously that should go double, at least, when the user is already banned and the comment is killed. Turning a dead comment by a banned user into an off-topic distraction and even starting a flamewar about it as you've basically done here, is an abuse in its own right. Please don't do anything like that on HN again. It's also a bad bet to assume that a trollish account isn't aware that they're banned here; the majority are perfectly well aware, and most have created many accounts and been banned many times. They continue to post with banned accounts as a way of continuing to spew into the forum and troll the minority of users who have 'showdead' turned on. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - unethical_ban 5y ago
      I suppose I'll follow the rules, but I think shadowbanning is really tacky to do except in the case of actual spam. Note my name. I was shadow-banned for one sarcastic comment eight years ago, despite being an otherwise good-faith, decent contributor. Maybe things are different now, but I've never gotten over the feeling of wasting my time putting thoughts together and responding to a conversation and finding out I muted. Hell, I'm a mod of a city subreddit, and one of the other mods has shadowbanned a complete asshat of a person. I don't have ban powers, otherwise I would ban them outright. It makes me uncomfortable to be a party to disrespect like that.
      - dang 5y ago
        We don't shadowban established accounts—we tell people we're banning them and why: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20banned&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... That's been the case for many years. I wrote about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573675. The exceptions are spammers and serial trolls. Those we continue to shadowban, for different reasons. In the case of spammers, telling them they're banned would just invite more spam, and in the case of serial trolls, would invite more trolling—besides which, serial trolls know perfectly well that they're banned. That's what "serial troll" means. The account you thought you were helping by telling them they were banned is one of the latter, and if you saw the shockingly abusive things they'd posted in the past I'm pretty sure you would think twice before casting them as an innocent victim. Don't you think it would be fair to update your views after 8 years? HN moderation has changed massively since then. When pg was the sole moderator of HN, it was completely impossible for him to put the kind of attention into moderation that we've been doing since we took over in 2014. That's the primary difference. If you look through my comment history you'll see that I've posted tens of thousands of comments and spent thousands of hours exhorting users to follow HN's rules, cajoling them and coaxing them and warning and scolding and coaching and helping and teaching. We cut people an incredible amount of slack before banning them. It's repetitive work and frequently meets with aggressive attacks and imaginary accusations. I think it's reasonable to expect a decade-long user like yourself to cut us a little slack too. If you think that we're beheading people without consideration, or treating them in any way disrespectfully, let alone unethically, I would invite you to observe more closely. I slip up sometimes and am happy to make corrections when people point that out, but I don't think charges of systemic malpractice are justified.
pseudalopex 5y ago
Lots of trans people have depression or anxiety disorders. Not personality disorders.[1] [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/psychiatric-characteristics-in-transsexual-individuals-multicentre-study-in-four-european-countries/843A9ADA9A802BBFA62E71E9323999A9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...
- watwut 5y ago
  I remember reading they are more likely on autistic spectrum. But that is not personalolity disorder either.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    Right. Autism is classified a developmental disorder. Mental illness means a psychological disorder usually.

by zepto 5y ago

Lots of trans people in fact are mentally ill. Given the additional stresses and oppresive social experiences trans people face and are outspoken about, this is entirely unsurprising.

bingidingi 5y ago

Sure, but this isn't an article about the mental health issues faced by trans people, it's an article about mental illness' role on the internet that uses DID, BPD, and trans people as the primary example of mental illness.

jandrese 5y ago

Mental health in relation to sexual identity is a massive minefield in online discussion. As soon as you go down that path you are in the realm of "curing" trans people of their mental illnesses, aka literally Hitler. It doesn't matter what you're actually saying, the only thing very online people are going to read is how you want to eliminate deviant sexual identity with medicine.

amznthrwaway 5y ago
And very online people like you whine and cry about how you’re the real victims if anybody critiques any aspects of your ideas, or probes your motives. Because very online white male people are so ensconced in privilege that they not only demand to be able to say any thought that comes into their head; you are such entitled little princesses that you must be able to say it without anybody ever being even slightly mean to you in reply. And then, comically, whiny, thin-skinned little losers like yourself call other people snowflakes and characterize them poorly, without ever realizing what an absolute hypocrite you are.
unethical_ban 5y ago
amznthrwaway: If you read this, know you are shadowbanned - only certain people can see your content. I can only guess it has something to do with being a bigot and not just wishing for people to die, but directly wishing for the parents of fellow posters here to die. You claim to have been shadow-banned before (I know I was, many years ago) but somehow, you don't know you've been banned for the past two months. And somehow you don't realize how unacceptable it is to criticize and insult racial groups and all members within it simply because of their skin color, no matter the color.
- dang 5y ago
  You've broken the site guidelines, which say: "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls. Obviously that should go double, at least, when the user is already banned and the comment is killed. Turning a dead comment by a banned user into an off-topic distraction and even starting a flamewar about it as you've basically done here, is an abuse in its own right. Please don't do anything like that on HN again. It's also a bad bet to assume that a trollish account isn't aware that they're banned here; the majority are perfectly well aware, and most have created many accounts and been banned many times. They continue to post with banned accounts as a way of continuing to spew into the forum and troll the minority of users who have 'showdead' turned on. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    I suppose I'll follow the rules, but I think shadowbanning is really tacky to do except in the case of actual spam. Note my name. I was shadow-banned for one sarcastic comment eight years ago, despite being an otherwise good-faith, decent contributor. Maybe things are different now, but I've never gotten over the feeling of wasting my time putting thoughts together and responding to a conversation and finding out I muted. Hell, I'm a mod of a city subreddit, and one of the other mods has shadowbanned a complete asshat of a person. I don't have ban powers, otherwise I would ban them outright. It makes me uncomfortable to be a party to disrespect like that.
    - dang 5y ago
      We don't shadowban established accounts—we tell people we're banning them and why: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20banned&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... That's been the case for many years. I wrote about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27573675. The exceptions are spammers and serial trolls. Those we continue to shadowban, for different reasons. In the case of spammers, telling them they're banned would just invite more spam, and in the case of serial trolls, would invite more trolling—besides which, serial trolls know perfectly well that they're banned. That's what "serial troll" means. The account you thought you were helping by telling them they were banned is one of the latter, and if you saw the shockingly abusive things they'd posted in the past I'm pretty sure you would think twice before casting them as an innocent victim. Don't you think it would be fair to update your views after 8 years? HN moderation has changed massively since then. When pg was the sole moderator of HN, it was completely impossible for him to put the kind of attention into moderation that we've been doing since we took over in 2014. That's the primary difference. If you look through my comment history you'll see that I've posted tens of thousands of comments and spent thousands of hours exhorting users to follow HN's rules, cajoling them and coaxing them and warning and scolding and coaching and helping and teaching. We cut people an incredible amount of slack before banning them. It's repetitive work and frequently meets with aggressive attacks and imaginary accusations. I think it's reasonable to expect a decade-long user like yourself to cut us a little slack too. If you think that we're beheading people without consideration, or treating them in any way disrespectfully, let alone unethically, I would invite you to observe more closely. I slip up sometimes and am happy to make corrections when people point that out, but I don't think charges of systemic malpractice are justified.

pseudalopex 5y ago

Lots of trans people have depression or anxiety disorders. Not personality disorders.[1] [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-of-psychiatry/article/psychiatric-characteristics-in-transsexual-individuals-multicentre-study-in-four-european-countries/843A9ADA9A802BBFA62E71E9323999A9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-british-journal-...

watwut 5y ago
I remember reading they are more likely on autistic spectrum. But that is not personalolity disorder either.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Right. Autism is classified a developmental disorder. Mental illness means a psychological disorder usually.