5 ms·

What's unethical about ticket scalping?

Causality1 5y ago
Is there anything not unethical about ticket scalping? Tickets being non-essential entertainment is the only reason it's legal.
neitherboosh 5y ago
Fans who really want to see their favorite artist/sports teams get extorted, and the money goes to scalpers instead of the artists and venues which are actually providing value. Scalpers provide no value to society.
- randomraccoon 5y ago
  Planet Money has done an excellent episode on this - https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/episode-468-kid-rock-vs-the-scalpers https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/epis.... While I broadly agree with this, I would say that scalpers can actually provide a service of exchanging money for time and convenience. For example, you may have a free or cheap concert that sells out extremely quickly, but with scalpers, those with lots of money can always get a ticket. Much of the economy is built on the similar concept of arbitrage, where someone buys something cheaply and sells it for a markup to those who lack the ability or knowledge to get it from the seller's source. That said, scalpers in particular seem to cause a whole lot more harm than good in general. As the above podcast addresses, it's a very difficult problem to solve systemically if you are intentionally undervaluing your goods.
  - swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
    Sounds like an oxymoron. Like hoarding toilet paper, gasoline, water during times of emergency, it limits the true supply. You could argue the “true price” is what the scalpers charge (who will stop drinking water when the prices skyrocket?). But in reality they squeeze the supply to create artificial scarcity. Any economist knows this is market manipulation.
  - ketzo 5y ago
    > For example, you may have a free or cheap concert that sells out extremely quickly, but with scalpers, those with lots of money can always get a ticket. But how do you square that with scalpers causing the tickets to sell out so quickly? I mean, they're the ones creating their own market. They're not really providing a service if they're the ones creating the annoying need for the service in the first place.
    - summm 5y ago
      Then just don't pay the inflated price and don't go to the event?
      - ketzo 5y ago
        I'm sort of trying to propose a situation where 1) the price doesn't get inflated and 2) I get to go to the event. Obviously, yes, if I am mad about scalpers' prices, I have the option to not pay them. I would like to go the event, though.
phkahler 5y ago
>> What's unethical about ticket scalping? It artificially inflates ticket prices by inserting a completely unnecessary middle-man in the purchase process. This is done by people with no intent to actually use the tickets they bought, so it's very much not the same as "oh I can't go would you like to buy my ticket?" This is similar to a dark pattern I've seen at shopping malls where they offer a valet service, but also rope off all the close parking spaces for valet. This creates an artificial scarcity of close parking spaces which helps to drive the valet business. If they never did this there would be little desire for the valet service.
- dmd 5y ago
  Yeah, that makes no sense. Valet should use the farthest spaces possible.
- ydlr 5y ago
  > >> What's unethical about ticket scalping? > It artificially inflates ticket prices by inserting a completely unnecessary middle-man in the purchase process. This is done by people with no intent to actually use the tickets they bought, so it's very much not the same as "oh I can't go would you like to buy my ticket?" I think this is called "retail."
  - ratherbefuddled 5y ago
    Retailers are generally providing a service. Somewhere to go and look at and try out a product, many products conveniently under one roof. Scalpers / touts are not, they are parasites.
    - akiselev 5y ago
      Retailers are also have strict liability for the products they sell. When something goes wrong, it is up to them to make customers right and go after the manufacturer to recover those damages.
      - 5y ago
atkailash 5y ago
On a mass scale like this it makes it impossible for real people who actually care and could have an experience of their lives get a ticket. If it’s Joe Martini on the corner trying to sell his extra ticket to Phantom of the Opera, it’s really no big deal imo
matt74827289 5y ago
People tend to not like scalping of any products, it raises the price of the product while adding little to no value. The hate towards scalping is quite visible in the GPU market due to its limited supply
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mjburgess 5y ago
It's a weird one. Events should auction off a percentage of tickets, and reserve a percentage "for fans" -- and all fixed to a name & photo id. One has to suspect that many events are in-cahoots with scalpers, and are just pricing their tickets below the market for PR reasons.
- sbarre 5y ago
  > all fixed to a name & photo id You're not the first to think of this I assure you. Most modern scalper platforms collect your credit card and personal info in advance and use it to buy your ticket with their bot. So even if the venue is matching purchase info to your ID and credit card, it all lines up. Scalpers aren't hawking tickets on show night 200 feet from the venue on the sidewalk anymore. You pre-buy through them to guarantee that you'll get the ticket you want since everything sells out super fast (because of scalpers!) and you pay the markup for that service.
pao 5y ago
Come on, man. Remember those guys last year who would drive around buying up all the masks, selling them online for 10x? You don't know why everybody hated them? This is why: The original seller has a reputation to protect and doesn't want to be seen as taking advantage. Maybe it's a musician who would rather sell to kids who are willing to wait in line than to whoever has the most money. Maybe a pharmacy selling masks in 2020. The arbitrage opportunity is for somebody with no reputation or scruples, who chooses to see themselves as just an Angel of the Free Market. To everyone else, he's a jerk.
- rvense 5y ago
  I like to call this line of thinking "capitalist determinism". Basically, if there is money to be made, it must be made. Letting any other concern interfere with this extracting of value is silly, or unnatural - even immoral. People talk about it in these detached terms, call it laws of economics and say that it is something that happens naturally. But of course, when one remembers that these so-called laws of economics describes interactions between people, and that you always can choose what kind of influence you want to have on the world.

Is there anything not unethical about ticket scalping? Tickets being non-essential entertainment is the only reason it's legal.

neitherboosh 5y ago

Fans who really want to see their favorite artist/sports teams get extorted, and the money goes to scalpers instead of the artists and venues which are actually providing value. Scalpers provide no value to society.

randomraccoon 5y ago
Planet Money has done an excellent episode on this - https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/episode-468-kid-rock-vs-the-scalpers https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/06/25/195641030/epis.... While I broadly agree with this, I would say that scalpers can actually provide a service of exchanging money for time and convenience. For example, you may have a free or cheap concert that sells out extremely quickly, but with scalpers, those with lots of money can always get a ticket. Much of the economy is built on the similar concept of arbitrage, where someone buys something cheaply and sells it for a markup to those who lack the ability or knowledge to get it from the seller's source. That said, scalpers in particular seem to cause a whole lot more harm than good in general. As the above podcast addresses, it's a very difficult problem to solve systemically if you are intentionally undervaluing your goods.
- swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
  Sounds like an oxymoron. Like hoarding toilet paper, gasoline, water during times of emergency, it limits the true supply. You could argue the “true price” is what the scalpers charge (who will stop drinking water when the prices skyrocket?). But in reality they squeeze the supply to create artificial scarcity. Any economist knows this is market manipulation.
- ketzo 5y ago
  > For example, you may have a free or cheap concert that sells out extremely quickly, but with scalpers, those with lots of money can always get a ticket. But how do you square that with scalpers causing the tickets to sell out so quickly? I mean, they're the ones creating their own market. They're not really providing a service if they're the ones creating the annoying need for the service in the first place.
  - summm 5y ago
    Then just don't pay the inflated price and don't go to the event?
    - ketzo 5y ago
      I'm sort of trying to propose a situation where 1) the price doesn't get inflated and 2) I get to go to the event. Obviously, yes, if I am mad about scalpers' prices, I have the option to not pay them. I would like to go the event, though.

phkahler 5y ago

>> What's unethical about ticket scalping? It artificially inflates ticket prices by inserting a completely unnecessary middle-man in the purchase process. This is done by people with no intent to actually use the tickets they bought, so it's very much not the same as "oh I can't go would you like to buy my ticket?" This is similar to a dark pattern I've seen at shopping malls where they offer a valet service, but also rope off all the close parking spaces for valet. This creates an artificial scarcity of close parking spaces which helps to drive the valet business. If they never did this there would be little desire for the valet service.

dmd 5y ago
Yeah, that makes no sense. Valet should use the farthest spaces possible.
ydlr 5y ago
> >> What's unethical about ticket scalping? > It artificially inflates ticket prices by inserting a completely unnecessary middle-man in the purchase process. This is done by people with no intent to actually use the tickets they bought, so it's very much not the same as "oh I can't go would you like to buy my ticket?" I think this is called "retail."
- ratherbefuddled 5y ago
  Retailers are generally providing a service. Somewhere to go and look at and try out a product, many products conveniently under one roof. Scalpers / touts are not, they are parasites.
  - akiselev 5y ago
    Retailers are also have strict liability for the products they sell. When something goes wrong, it is up to them to make customers right and go after the manufacturer to recover those damages.
    - 5y ago

atkailash 5y ago

On a mass scale like this it makes it impossible for real people who actually care and could have an experience of their lives get a ticket. If it’s Joe Martini on the corner trying to sell his extra ticket to Phantom of the Opera, it’s really no big deal imo

matt74827289 5y ago

People tend to not like scalping of any products, it raises the price of the product while adding little to no value. The hate towards scalping is quite visible in the GPU market due to its limited supply

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mjburgess 5y ago

It's a weird one. Events should auction off a percentage of tickets, and reserve a percentage "for fans" -- and all fixed to a name & photo id. One has to suspect that many events are in-cahoots with scalpers, and are just pricing their tickets below the market for PR reasons.

sbarre 5y ago
> all fixed to a name & photo id You're not the first to think of this I assure you. Most modern scalper platforms collect your credit card and personal info in advance and use it to buy your ticket with their bot. So even if the venue is matching purchase info to your ID and credit card, it all lines up. Scalpers aren't hawking tickets on show night 200 feet from the venue on the sidewalk anymore. You pre-buy through them to guarantee that you'll get the ticket you want since everything sells out super fast (because of scalpers!) and you pay the markup for that service.

pao 5y ago

Come on, man. Remember those guys last year who would drive around buying up all the masks, selling them online for 10x? You don't know why everybody hated them? This is why: The original seller has a reputation to protect and doesn't want to be seen as taking advantage. Maybe it's a musician who would rather sell to kids who are willing to wait in line than to whoever has the most money. Maybe a pharmacy selling masks in 2020. The arbitrage opportunity is for somebody with no reputation or scruples, who chooses to see themselves as just an Angel of the Free Market. To everyone else, he's a jerk.

rvense 5y ago
I like to call this line of thinking "capitalist determinism". Basically, if there is money to be made, it must be made. Letting any other concern interfere with this extracting of value is silly, or unnatural - even immoral. People talk about it in these detached terms, call it laws of economics and say that it is something that happens naturally. But of course, when one remembers that these so-called laws of economics describes interactions between people, and that you always can choose what kind of influence you want to have on the world.