4 ms·

But India/China are not the only places where you can outsource to. What about France? Minimal cultural differences, and you still get massive savings when it

But India/China are not the only places where you can outsource to. What about France? Minimal cultural differences, and you still get massive savings when it comes to paying salaries.

dudul 5y ago
You absolutely do not save anything by outsourcing from the US to France. And cultural differences are there too. That was probably the worst possible example in the EU :-) That being said, yes there are other options. Eastern Europe is more and more popular for outsourcing, so is South America. Honestly, I'm maybe dead wrong but when I compare the mentality two decades ago (ie let's minimize cost by any means, who cares who writes the code? it's just code) and today, I truly see an equivalent to the "not invented here" syndrome.
- jason0597 5y ago
  Hmm. US salaries are $100k or more. French salaries are in the range of €30k-€45k, is that not savings? Unless I'm wrong somewhere
  - bzbarsky 5y ago
    For a start, salary and cost to employer are not the same thing. A $100k salary in the US also means the employer is paying $7650 in payroll taxes, typically some amount of money for health insurance ($0-$30k depending on the employer), maybe paying for office space, etc, etc. A €40k salary in France means the employer is paying (if I read https://www.activpayroll.com/global-insights/france https://www.activpayroll.com/global-insights/france at "Social Security in France" correctly) somewhere around €21k in payroll taxes, plus whatever other benefits/administrative/etc expenses they have. I assumed the "family allowance contribution" of 3-5% is paid by employee, not employer, but I'm not sure. That's assuming that €40k is the gross wage and not the "wage after employee side of payroll taxes". I don't know what the French custom is here in terms of what the salary numbers mean. Anyway, the employer cost of just that €40k salary plus the obvious payroll taxes is $73k or so (with the payroll taxes and current exchange rate). Obviously still smaller than the $108k for US salary plus payroll, but not as much smaller as it seems at first glance. Also note that in the US it's normal to work longer hours for more weeks for that money than it is in France for the French salary, though the effect is actually not too great if the US job is mostly 40 hrs/week, 2-3 weeks vacation, etc.

But India/China are not the only places where you can outsource to. What about France? Minimal cultural differences, and you still get massive savings when it comes to paying salaries.

dudul 5y ago

You absolutely do not save anything by outsourcing from the US to France. And cultural differences are there too. That was probably the worst possible example in the EU :-) That being said, yes there are other options. Eastern Europe is more and more popular for outsourcing, so is South America. Honestly, I'm maybe dead wrong but when I compare the mentality two decades ago (ie let's minimize cost by any means, who cares who writes the code? it's just code) and today, I truly see an equivalent to the "not invented here" syndrome.

jason0597 5y ago
Hmm. US salaries are $100k or more. French salaries are in the range of €30k-€45k, is that not savings? Unless I'm wrong somewhere
- bzbarsky 5y ago
  For a start, salary and cost to employer are not the same thing. A $100k salary in the US also means the employer is paying $7650 in payroll taxes, typically some amount of money for health insurance ($0-$30k depending on the employer), maybe paying for office space, etc, etc. A €40k salary in France means the employer is paying (if I read https://www.activpayroll.com/global-insights/france https://www.activpayroll.com/global-insights/france at "Social Security in France" correctly) somewhere around €21k in payroll taxes, plus whatever other benefits/administrative/etc expenses they have. I assumed the "family allowance contribution" of 3-5% is paid by employee, not employer, but I'm not sure. That's assuming that €40k is the gross wage and not the "wage after employee side of payroll taxes". I don't know what the French custom is here in terms of what the salary numbers mean. Anyway, the employer cost of just that €40k salary plus the obvious payroll taxes is $73k or so (with the payroll taxes and current exchange rate). Obviously still smaller than the $108k for US salary plus payroll, but not as much smaller as it seems at first glance. Also note that in the US it's normal to work longer hours for more weeks for that money than it is in France for the French salary, though the effect is actually not too great if the US job is mostly 40 hrs/week, 2-3 weeks vacation, etc.