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Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hote

Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries. You have so many options you feel constantly overwhelmed, stressing about making bad choices because everything your primitive heart could ever desire is not merely available, but plentiful and cheap. And it'll recruit you if you're not careful. Money fails to motivate when you have enough of it regardless. Life wants meaning. Imagine having all the time in the world, just thinking about everything. Your whole life. What would you do?

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what Realistic UBI proposals wouldn’t exactly provide a comfortable wage. They’d provide just enough to get by on the basics, if that. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful, but it does mean that it won’t be an attractive alternative to work for anyone who isn’t comfortable staying poor forever. UBI would still be a safety net, not an attractive alternative to working. The idea that UBI would enable people to become free of work and follow their dreams for free has been greatly exaggerated. It’s just not possible to tax enough to pay everyone high UBI wages. Safety net wages, maybe, but it won’t be a fun living situation to depend entirely on UBI.
- modulusshift 5y ago
  Personally I think that even if UBI wouldn’t provide a living wage in today’s economy, that it will fundamentally change market dynamics in interesting ways. Companies constantly adjust prices up in the US because of increased buying power, aka “they can afford to give us more profit”. There’s an entire industry of cheap smartphones that don’t release in the US, only in India, China, and third world countries, and they’re plenty profitable, but they deliberately only release even more profitable models in the US. I think creating a significant class of people with reduced buying power in the US will actually lower prices here, as at least some companies decide they don’t want to miss out on that portion of the market just to soak the rest of the Americans for even more money. Of course that’s expressing a lot of faith in capitalism so it’s entirely possible, even likely, that it would somehow make the entire situation even worse.
kingsuper20 5y ago
"Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.
- haskellandchill 5y ago
  I disagree, I've been learning Krav Maga in my newfound free time. Want to fight about it?
  - Pokepokalypse 5y ago
    your skills are weak, old man.
- SavageBeast 5y ago
  Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing to who their parents and grandparents were. They tend to end up chemical addicted for the most part. Idle hands do the devils work.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    This is a side effect of society overly focusing on money instead of knowledge as the primary success metric.
  - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
    I've not seen any serious proposals to implement ubi before automation has substantially increased unemployment. In that case, not only are people idle, but also desperate. Fwiw, I don't mind working at all, but in an ideal world, my work would be varied and my hours would be of my choosing. Sure, you can get that if you freelance, but most corporate jobs want 8h/d 40h/w, at least, and is that how anyone wants to spend their time on earth?
nickpp 5y ago
Exactly 3 things: smoke weed, jerk off and play games on my Xbox. In that exact order. Sorry for my honesty, I have no filter.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  I'm more of a PC guy, but yeah, pretty much. For a while. But even that gets boring at some point. Human brains are weird, man.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    I really wonder dude, I really wonder. The older I get the harder I find to be excited by shit. I do believe that if I was in the iPhone team I would've been like "another f-ing phone, why should I care?". The paycheck is pretty much all that is getting me out of bed in the morning, even if at this point I can't say I really need it anymore.
    - cghendrix 5y ago
      I feel the absolute same way. I’ve learned to be satisfied rather than passionate/excited about work. It’s much more sustainable in the long run.
    - adflux 5y ago
      Guess its a normal part of aging, but maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like
      - ghaff 5y ago
        >maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like People absolutely fall in and out of interest in different types of activities. This is especially true of people who really jump into things with both feet.
    - dragonsngoblins 5y ago
      Part of that might be that you lack the time or energy to properly explore new things though, and that lack of time or energy probably has something to do with getting that pay check. I mean also maybe not, but I find it hard to devote time to things I know I am interested in because I work 9-5, 5 days a week. I spend time with my partner of an evening and have housework and exercise to take care of and after all that it feels like there is very little time and like I don't have a lot of energy to learn new skills or pursue hobbies, so what I end up doing is the things I know I like but that are not draining. Ultimately I spend a lot of time reading or playing video games or goofing off on reddit. Even taking a week or two off isn't necessarily a good indicator, because you won't say, go and buy a bunch of paints and an easel and go "right I'm finally going to get stuck into painting" when you only have two weeks off and know you won't have time for it once they are up
mkr-hn 5y ago
Spend every waking hour out with my camera exploring every corner of every small town around me and writing about it. Like this: https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-into-downtown-winder/ https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-i... But all the time.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Oh pretty cool. We've been doing that with my fiance for a few years. Her English isn't quite as good as mine but I proof-read it once. https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08
afpx 5y ago
Write crappy programs, make crappy art and music, and write crappy stories. I'm low in talent, high in motivation. Most people are probably low in talent and motivation (because lacking talent is demotivating).

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what Realistic UBI proposals wouldn’t exactly provide a comfortable wage. They’d provide just enough to get by on the basics, if that. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful, but it does mean that it won’t be an attractive alternative to work for anyone who isn’t comfortable staying poor forever. UBI would still be a safety net, not an attractive alternative to working. The idea that UBI would enable people to become free of work and follow their dreams for free has been greatly exaggerated. It’s just not possible to tax enough to pay everyone high UBI wages. Safety net wages, maybe, but it won’t be a fun living situation to depend entirely on UBI.

modulusshift 5y ago
Personally I think that even if UBI wouldn’t provide a living wage in today’s economy, that it will fundamentally change market dynamics in interesting ways. Companies constantly adjust prices up in the US because of increased buying power, aka “they can afford to give us more profit”. There’s an entire industry of cheap smartphones that don’t release in the US, only in India, China, and third world countries, and they’re plenty profitable, but they deliberately only release even more profitable models in the US. I think creating a significant class of people with reduced buying power in the US will actually lower prices here, as at least some companies decide they don’t want to miss out on that portion of the market just to soak the rest of the Americans for even more money. Of course that’s expressing a lot of faith in capitalism so it’s entirely possible, even likely, that it would somehow make the entire situation even worse.

kingsuper20 5y ago

"Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.

haskellandchill 5y ago
I disagree, I've been learning Krav Maga in my newfound free time. Want to fight about it?
- Pokepokalypse 5y ago
  your skills are weak, old man.
SavageBeast 5y ago
Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing to who their parents and grandparents were. They tend to end up chemical addicted for the most part. Idle hands do the devils work.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  This is a side effect of society overly focusing on money instead of knowledge as the primary success metric.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  I've not seen any serious proposals to implement ubi before automation has substantially increased unemployment. In that case, not only are people idle, but also desperate. Fwiw, I don't mind working at all, but in an ideal world, my work would be varied and my hours would be of my choosing. Sure, you can get that if you freelance, but most corporate jobs want 8h/d 40h/w, at least, and is that how anyone wants to spend their time on earth?

nickpp 5y ago

Exactly 3 things: smoke weed, jerk off and play games on my Xbox. In that exact order. Sorry for my honesty, I have no filter.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
I'm more of a PC guy, but yeah, pretty much. For a while. But even that gets boring at some point. Human brains are weird, man.
- nickpp 5y ago
  I really wonder dude, I really wonder. The older I get the harder I find to be excited by shit. I do believe that if I was in the iPhone team I would've been like "another f-ing phone, why should I care?". The paycheck is pretty much all that is getting me out of bed in the morning, even if at this point I can't say I really need it anymore.
  - cghendrix 5y ago
    I feel the absolute same way. I’ve learned to be satisfied rather than passionate/excited about work. It’s much more sustainable in the long run.
  - adflux 5y ago
    Guess its a normal part of aging, but maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like
    - ghaff 5y ago
      >maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like People absolutely fall in and out of interest in different types of activities. This is especially true of people who really jump into things with both feet.
  - dragonsngoblins 5y ago
    Part of that might be that you lack the time or energy to properly explore new things though, and that lack of time or energy probably has something to do with getting that pay check. I mean also maybe not, but I find it hard to devote time to things I know I am interested in because I work 9-5, 5 days a week. I spend time with my partner of an evening and have housework and exercise to take care of and after all that it feels like there is very little time and like I don't have a lot of energy to learn new skills or pursue hobbies, so what I end up doing is the things I know I like but that are not draining. Ultimately I spend a lot of time reading or playing video games or goofing off on reddit. Even taking a week or two off isn't necessarily a good indicator, because you won't say, go and buy a bunch of paints and an easel and go "right I'm finally going to get stuck into painting" when you only have two weeks off and know you won't have time for it once they are up

mkr-hn 5y ago

Spend every waking hour out with my camera exploring every corner of every small town around me and writing about it. Like this: https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-into-downtown-winder/ https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-i... But all the time.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
Oh pretty cool. We've been doing that with my fiance for a few years. Her English isn't quite as good as mine but I proof-read it once. https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08

afpx 5y ago

Write crappy programs, make crappy art and music, and write crappy stories. I'm low in talent, high in motivation. Most people are probably low in talent and motivation (because lacking talent is demotivating).