5 ms·

One of my great fears in life is that employers/insurers will impose this en masse on people, causing immeasurable harm to the mental health of people who can’t

One of my great fears in life is that employers/insurers will impose this en masse on people, causing immeasurable harm to the mental health of people who can’t handle the anxiety that this type of approach to medicine would cause. I’m definitely a big proponent of evidence-based medicine and using it to help living quality life as long as possible, but this sort of thing would just wreck my day to day existence and destroy my quality of life. I am not a server in a data center. I am a human with consciousness and emotions, the desire to live, and a fear of suffering and death.

hans1729 5y ago
One of your greatest fears in life is to be regularly checked for diseases that would end your life unless thy are detected in time? ...What? e: you mean the emotional distress caused by the process? But that's just in your head, and it's beyond irrational. Getting checked is inherently a good thing. Even if you are extremely anxious, the people who love you want you to live - this is a psychological problem that you should work through, not one with the testing
- dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
  Yes that is right. I make no claims to being a rational being. I am at best pseudo rational. As much as I love computers, I make no claim to being one. I am a human. And yes, I do also greatly appreciate evidence based medicine. There are many terminal illnesses where there is no evidence that constant screening improves outcomes. My impression is that people successfully market products like this to give people a false sense of control tire through micromanagement where given the state of the art, control is lacking.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    > My impression is that people successfully market products like this to give people a sense of control where given the state of the art, control is lacking. There can be no such evidence for a screening method like this, because it is brand new. We may find that even detection as early as Grail provides is still insufficient, but we don't and can't know yet. Certainly with many cancers earlier detection does lead to better outcomes. You also seem to be focusing on cases where screening has not improved outcomes while ignoring cases where it has.
  - hans1729 5y ago
    That still escapes the main argument: your problem isn't the medicine, your problem is your anxiety. If "this sort of thing would just wreck your day to day existence and destroy your quality of life" (let your own wording sink in), you should work through that exact problem, probably rather sooner than later. Detecting diseases before they actually destroy your life isn't bad, it's good - and so you should perceive it as good. Not because you're a rational acteur, but because it's literally, by definition, in your personal best interest. Take a step back from the panic, just purely observe, and try to see it for what it is: it prevents real suffering - your own very real suffering - and the price to pay is working through imaginary suffering. Getting your blood checked isn't linearly related with fears of death, the exact opposite is the case. Try to see it for what it actually is, instead of intuitively letting panic-mode take over. If your intuition doesn't serve your well-being, proactively go ahead and fix your intuition - you can.
- TaupeRanger 5y ago
  No, you are flat out wrong and anyone with an understanding of good health policy will understand this. Screening can lead to iatrogenics and unnecessary costs. It is not automatically a net gain, it has to PROVE that it makes patients live longer or better, just like any other intervention. And in many cases, screening policies actually make things worse for all kinds of reasons.
andai 5y ago
Do you mean the psychological impact of the screenings, constantly wondering if you have cancer, if the test missed anything etc, rather than fear of the procedure itself?
bick_nyers 5y ago
Maybe do an anxiety screening first

hans1729 5y ago

One of your greatest fears in life is to be regularly checked for diseases that would end your life unless thy are detected in time? ...What? e: you mean the emotional distress caused by the process? But that's just in your head, and it's beyond irrational. Getting checked is inherently a good thing. Even if you are extremely anxious, the people who love you want you to live - this is a psychological problem that you should work through, not one with the testing

dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
Yes that is right. I make no claims to being a rational being. I am at best pseudo rational. As much as I love computers, I make no claim to being one. I am a human. And yes, I do also greatly appreciate evidence based medicine. There are many terminal illnesses where there is no evidence that constant screening improves outcomes. My impression is that people successfully market products like this to give people a false sense of control tire through micromanagement where given the state of the art, control is lacking.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  > My impression is that people successfully market products like this to give people a sense of control where given the state of the art, control is lacking. There can be no such evidence for a screening method like this, because it is brand new. We may find that even detection as early as Grail provides is still insufficient, but we don't and can't know yet. Certainly with many cancers earlier detection does lead to better outcomes. You also seem to be focusing on cases where screening has not improved outcomes while ignoring cases where it has.
- hans1729 5y ago
  That still escapes the main argument: your problem isn't the medicine, your problem is your anxiety. If "this sort of thing would just wreck your day to day existence and destroy your quality of life" (let your own wording sink in), you should work through that exact problem, probably rather sooner than later. Detecting diseases before they actually destroy your life isn't bad, it's good - and so you should perceive it as good. Not because you're a rational acteur, but because it's literally, by definition, in your personal best interest. Take a step back from the panic, just purely observe, and try to see it for what it is: it prevents real suffering - your own very real suffering - and the price to pay is working through imaginary suffering. Getting your blood checked isn't linearly related with fears of death, the exact opposite is the case. Try to see it for what it actually is, instead of intuitively letting panic-mode take over. If your intuition doesn't serve your well-being, proactively go ahead and fix your intuition - you can.
TaupeRanger 5y ago
No, you are flat out wrong and anyone with an understanding of good health policy will understand this. Screening can lead to iatrogenics and unnecessary costs. It is not automatically a net gain, it has to PROVE that it makes patients live longer or better, just like any other intervention. And in many cases, screening policies actually make things worse for all kinds of reasons.

andai 5y ago

Do you mean the psychological impact of the screenings, constantly wondering if you have cancer, if the test missed anything etc, rather than fear of the procedure itself?

bick_nyers 5y ago

Maybe do an anxiety screening first