7 ms·

Nice you have the option

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries. You have so many options you feel constantly overwhelmed, stressing about making bad choices because everything your primitive heart could ever desire is not merely available, but plentiful and cheap. And it'll recruit you if you're not careful. Money fails to motivate when you have enough of it regardless. Life wants meaning. Imagine having all the time in the world, just thinking about everything. Your whole life. What would you do?
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what Realistic UBI proposals wouldn’t exactly provide a comfortable wage. They’d provide just enough to get by on the basics, if that. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful, but it does mean that it won’t be an attractive alternative to work for anyone who isn’t comfortable staying poor forever. UBI would still be a safety net, not an attractive alternative to working. The idea that UBI would enable people to become free of work and follow their dreams for free has been greatly exaggerated. It’s just not possible to tax enough to pay everyone high UBI wages. Safety net wages, maybe, but it won’t be a fun living situation to depend entirely on UBI.
  - modulusshift 5y ago
    Personally I think that even if UBI wouldn’t provide a living wage in today’s economy, that it will fundamentally change market dynamics in interesting ways. Companies constantly adjust prices up in the US because of increased buying power, aka “they can afford to give us more profit”. There’s an entire industry of cheap smartphones that don’t release in the US, only in India, China, and third world countries, and they’re plenty profitable, but they deliberately only release even more profitable models in the US. I think creating a significant class of people with reduced buying power in the US will actually lower prices here, as at least some companies decide they don’t want to miss out on that portion of the market just to soak the rest of the Americans for even more money. Of course that’s expressing a lot of faith in capitalism so it’s entirely possible, even likely, that it would somehow make the entire situation even worse.
- kingsuper20 5y ago
  "Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.
  - haskellandchill 5y ago
    I disagree, I've been learning Krav Maga in my newfound free time. Want to fight about it?
    - Pokepokalypse 5y ago
      your skills are weak, old man.
  - SavageBeast 5y ago
    Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing to who their parents and grandparents were. They tend to end up chemical addicted for the most part. Idle hands do the devils work.
    - rorykoehler 5y ago
      This is a side effect of society overly focusing on money instead of knowledge as the primary success metric.
    - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
      I've not seen any serious proposals to implement ubi before automation has substantially increased unemployment. In that case, not only are people idle, but also desperate. Fwiw, I don't mind working at all, but in an ideal world, my work would be varied and my hours would be of my choosing. Sure, you can get that if you freelance, but most corporate jobs want 8h/d 40h/w, at least, and is that how anyone wants to spend their time on earth?
- nickpp 5y ago
  Exactly 3 things: smoke weed, jerk off and play games on my Xbox. In that exact order. Sorry for my honesty, I have no filter.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    I'm more of a PC guy, but yeah, pretty much. For a while. But even that gets boring at some point. Human brains are weird, man.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      I really wonder dude, I really wonder. The older I get the harder I find to be excited by shit. I do believe that if I was in the iPhone team I would've been like "another f-ing phone, why should I care?". The paycheck is pretty much all that is getting me out of bed in the morning, even if at this point I can't say I really need it anymore.
      - cghendrix 5y ago
        I feel the absolute same way. I’ve learned to be satisfied rather than passionate/excited about work. It’s much more sustainable in the long run.
      - adflux 5y ago
        Guess its a normal part of aging, but maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like
        ghaff 5y ago
        >maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like People absolutely fall in and out of interest in different types of activities. This is especially true of people who really jump into things with both feet.
      - dragonsngoblins 5y ago
        Part of that might be that you lack the time or energy to properly explore new things though, and that lack of time or energy probably has something to do with getting that pay check. I mean also maybe not, but I find it hard to devote time to things I know I am interested in because I work 9-5, 5 days a week. I spend time with my partner of an evening and have housework and exercise to take care of and after all that it feels like there is very little time and like I don't have a lot of energy to learn new skills or pursue hobbies, so what I end up doing is the things I know I like but that are not draining. Ultimately I spend a lot of time reading or playing video games or goofing off on reddit. Even taking a week or two off isn't necessarily a good indicator, because you won't say, go and buy a bunch of paints and an easel and go "right I'm finally going to get stuck into painting" when you only have two weeks off and know you won't have time for it once they are up
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Spend every waking hour out with my camera exploring every corner of every small town around me and writing about it. Like this: https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-into-downtown-winder/ https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-i... But all the time.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Oh pretty cool. We've been doing that with my fiance for a few years. Her English isn't quite as good as mine but I proof-read it once. https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08
- afpx 5y ago
  Write crappy programs, make crappy art and music, and write crappy stories. I'm low in talent, high in motivation. Most people are probably low in talent and motivation (because lacking talent is demotivating).
loloquwowndueo 5y ago
Don’t you? Why not? Because of financials? Job availability in your region? There’s always an option. It might entail a more extensive change and change is hard, that’s for sure.
- YrAz3EGttt 5y ago
  It indeed is a luxury to be able to take a year off at will. Big reason I can think of is financials. In my opinion, burnout is a problem only faced by people who can afford to do so. I am not saying everyone doesn't face burnout, they probably do, but not everyone can afford to take a sabbatical, dip into savings, indulge in a hobby etc. There are many people who don't earn as much as a silicon valley engineer, have low savings to dip into, and perhaps even have/inherit debt - Making rent and being able to afford essentials takes priority to dealing with burnout in such situations.
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    2/3 of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Taking a year off is definitely not the norm
    - caseysoftware 5y ago
      Most people pay $100+/month for cable, eat out multiple times per week, have thousands of credit card debt, and an unexpected $400 bill would ravage them. If you want to live a un-average life, you need to have un-average priorities and sacrifice. Few on HN should be living paycheck to paycheck. Check out Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover for a starting model. And yes, you'll have to sacrifice now to benefit later.
      - JoeQuery 5y ago
        I totally recommend everyone read Dave Ramsay's work to understand how to approach money. It was an eye opener for me. But you have to understand that consumerism is pushed down our throats from all around starting at a very young age. Dave Ramsay doesn't just come into your consciousness like advertising does, and unless one is close to someone who is very anti consumerism and advertising you will likely be subjected to an onslaught of messages aimed at your subconscious that you are completely ill-equipped to fight. I think many people in these comments are speaking on behalf of the general population who does not have the luxury of taking a year off. This comment of yours drips with privilege. Edit: I was introduced to dave Ramsay's work in my 20s by a close friend who was wealthy and had businesses and homes. He volunteered with some organizations to provide financial literacy classes. I was lucky to have been given that reference.
dougmwne 5y ago
I had no special circumstances, I just made a choice to put years of savings to work for myself immediately instead of in the uncertain future. I sold everything and lived simply. Not everyone could do it, but many could who think they can't.
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Being able to save, especially for years, is a special circumstance. At least in the US where wages have been flat for quite a while even as cost of living skyrocketed.
  - ykevinator3 5y ago
    Especially if you have kids and work as labor
  - alecst 5y ago
    I don’t want to sound like a know it all, but I managed to save a lot of money living in a big city in a grad student stipend, which is about $25k. It can be done. I spent very little biking, cooking from home, buying used, having roommates, not drinking, not buying much. There are exceptions like kids and chronic health issues but most people could save a lot more money if they wanted. I say this without judgment, people just have different priorities. I recognize my advantages, but I have more savings than most people in my family, despite probably having the lowest lifetime income.
    - mkr-hn 5y ago
      This really needs a time frame. $25k in a big city means different things depending on era. The curves of wage growth, cost of living, and wealth disparity didn't start to diverge so wildly until the 2000s. This took a lot of people by surprise and people whose experiences diverge by era aren't always aware of how quickly things changed for other people. Someone who graduated in 2005 will often have a completely different experience from someone who graduated in 2008 or 2009. People who haven't had to look for a job since the '80s are especially befuddled to learn "ask for the manager" leads to "there's an online application kiosk by the door, go there." Usually along with "we don't have any openings, but we keep it on file for 6 months!"

Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries. You have so many options you feel constantly overwhelmed, stressing about making bad choices because everything your primitive heart could ever desire is not merely available, but plentiful and cheap. And it'll recruit you if you're not careful. Money fails to motivate when you have enough of it regardless. Life wants meaning. Imagine having all the time in the world, just thinking about everything. Your whole life. What would you do?

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what Realistic UBI proposals wouldn’t exactly provide a comfortable wage. They’d provide just enough to get by on the basics, if that. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be helpful, but it does mean that it won’t be an attractive alternative to work for anyone who isn’t comfortable staying poor forever. UBI would still be a safety net, not an attractive alternative to working. The idea that UBI would enable people to become free of work and follow their dreams for free has been greatly exaggerated. It’s just not possible to tax enough to pay everyone high UBI wages. Safety net wages, maybe, but it won’t be a fun living situation to depend entirely on UBI.
- modulusshift 5y ago
  Personally I think that even if UBI wouldn’t provide a living wage in today’s economy, that it will fundamentally change market dynamics in interesting ways. Companies constantly adjust prices up in the US because of increased buying power, aka “they can afford to give us more profit”. There’s an entire industry of cheap smartphones that don’t release in the US, only in India, China, and third world countries, and they’re plenty profitable, but they deliberately only release even more profitable models in the US. I think creating a significant class of people with reduced buying power in the US will actually lower prices here, as at least some companies decide they don’t want to miss out on that portion of the market just to soak the rest of the Americans for even more money. Of course that’s expressing a lot of faith in capitalism so it’s entirely possible, even likely, that it would somehow make the entire situation even worse.
kingsuper20 5y ago
"Imagine living in a society where basic income is guaranteed no matter what, and even its worst places - its prison cells - compare favorably to the finest hotels of other countries." What I see are bored young males hanging out and getting in fights, not a whole generation of people learning cuneiform in their newfound free time.
- haskellandchill 5y ago
  I disagree, I've been learning Krav Maga in my newfound free time. Want to fight about it?
  - Pokepokalypse 5y ago
    your skills are weak, old man.
- SavageBeast 5y ago
  Absolutely. There is no free lunch. UBI comes on the backs of the value adding class of society. Some people actually LIKE to work, hard as it is for some to believe. The Value Adding Class will have privilege thrust upon them in the form of paying for those young males to hang out and get in fights. Ive had the dubious honor of knowing more than one kid who was never going to have to work a single day in life owing to who their parents and grandparents were. They tend to end up chemical addicted for the most part. Idle hands do the devils work.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    This is a side effect of society overly focusing on money instead of knowledge as the primary success metric.
  - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
    I've not seen any serious proposals to implement ubi before automation has substantially increased unemployment. In that case, not only are people idle, but also desperate. Fwiw, I don't mind working at all, but in an ideal world, my work would be varied and my hours would be of my choosing. Sure, you can get that if you freelance, but most corporate jobs want 8h/d 40h/w, at least, and is that how anyone wants to spend their time on earth?
nickpp 5y ago
Exactly 3 things: smoke weed, jerk off and play games on my Xbox. In that exact order. Sorry for my honesty, I have no filter.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  I'm more of a PC guy, but yeah, pretty much. For a while. But even that gets boring at some point. Human brains are weird, man.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    I really wonder dude, I really wonder. The older I get the harder I find to be excited by shit. I do believe that if I was in the iPhone team I would've been like "another f-ing phone, why should I care?". The paycheck is pretty much all that is getting me out of bed in the morning, even if at this point I can't say I really need it anymore.
    - cghendrix 5y ago
      I feel the absolute same way. I’ve learned to be satisfied rather than passionate/excited about work. It’s much more sustainable in the long run.
    - adflux 5y ago
      Guess its a normal part of aging, but maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like
      - ghaff 5y ago
        >maybe its not normal to not get excited by stuff you used to like People absolutely fall in and out of interest in different types of activities. This is especially true of people who really jump into things with both feet.
    - dragonsngoblins 5y ago
      Part of that might be that you lack the time or energy to properly explore new things though, and that lack of time or energy probably has something to do with getting that pay check. I mean also maybe not, but I find it hard to devote time to things I know I am interested in because I work 9-5, 5 days a week. I spend time with my partner of an evening and have housework and exercise to take care of and after all that it feels like there is very little time and like I don't have a lot of energy to learn new skills or pursue hobbies, so what I end up doing is the things I know I like but that are not draining. Ultimately I spend a lot of time reading or playing video games or goofing off on reddit. Even taking a week or two off isn't necessarily a good indicator, because you won't say, go and buy a bunch of paints and an easel and go "right I'm finally going to get stuck into painting" when you only have two weeks off and know you won't have time for it once they are up
mkr-hn 5y ago
Spend every waking hour out with my camera exploring every corner of every small town around me and writing about it. Like this: https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-into-downtown-winder/ https://viewfinderfox.com/first-post-vaccination-excursion-i... But all the time.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Oh pretty cool. We've been doing that with my fiance for a few years. Her English isn't quite as good as mine but I proof-read it once. https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08
afpx 5y ago
Write crappy programs, make crappy art and music, and write crappy stories. I'm low in talent, high in motivation. Most people are probably low in talent and motivation (because lacking talent is demotivating).

loloquwowndueo 5y ago

Don’t you? Why not? Because of financials? Job availability in your region? There’s always an option. It might entail a more extensive change and change is hard, that’s for sure.

YrAz3EGttt 5y ago
It indeed is a luxury to be able to take a year off at will. Big reason I can think of is financials. In my opinion, burnout is a problem only faced by people who can afford to do so. I am not saying everyone doesn't face burnout, they probably do, but not everyone can afford to take a sabbatical, dip into savings, indulge in a hobby etc. There are many people who don't earn as much as a silicon valley engineer, have low savings to dip into, and perhaps even have/inherit debt - Making rent and being able to afford essentials takes priority to dealing with burnout in such situations.
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  2/3 of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Taking a year off is definitely not the norm
  - caseysoftware 5y ago
    Most people pay $100+/month for cable, eat out multiple times per week, have thousands of credit card debt, and an unexpected $400 bill would ravage them. If you want to live a un-average life, you need to have un-average priorities and sacrifice. Few on HN should be living paycheck to paycheck. Check out Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover for a starting model. And yes, you'll have to sacrifice now to benefit later.
    - JoeQuery 5y ago
      I totally recommend everyone read Dave Ramsay's work to understand how to approach money. It was an eye opener for me. But you have to understand that consumerism is pushed down our throats from all around starting at a very young age. Dave Ramsay doesn't just come into your consciousness like advertising does, and unless one is close to someone who is very anti consumerism and advertising you will likely be subjected to an onslaught of messages aimed at your subconscious that you are completely ill-equipped to fight. I think many people in these comments are speaking on behalf of the general population who does not have the luxury of taking a year off. This comment of yours drips with privilege. Edit: I was introduced to dave Ramsay's work in my 20s by a close friend who was wealthy and had businesses and homes. He volunteered with some organizations to provide financial literacy classes. I was lucky to have been given that reference.

dougmwne 5y ago

I had no special circumstances, I just made a choice to put years of savings to work for myself immediately instead of in the uncertain future. I sold everything and lived simply. Not everyone could do it, but many could who think they can't.

mkr-hn 5y ago
Being able to save, especially for years, is a special circumstance. At least in the US where wages have been flat for quite a while even as cost of living skyrocketed.
- ykevinator3 5y ago
  Especially if you have kids and work as labor
- alecst 5y ago
  I don’t want to sound like a know it all, but I managed to save a lot of money living in a big city in a grad student stipend, which is about $25k. It can be done. I spent very little biking, cooking from home, buying used, having roommates, not drinking, not buying much. There are exceptions like kids and chronic health issues but most people could save a lot more money if they wanted. I say this without judgment, people just have different priorities. I recognize my advantages, but I have more savings than most people in my family, despite probably having the lowest lifetime income.
  - mkr-hn 5y ago
    This really needs a time frame. $25k in a big city means different things depending on era. The curves of wage growth, cost of living, and wealth disparity didn't start to diverge so wildly until the 2000s. This took a lot of people by surprise and people whose experiences diverge by era aren't always aware of how quickly things changed for other people. Someone who graduated in 2005 will often have a completely different experience from someone who graduated in 2008 or 2009. People who haven't had to look for a job since the '80s are especially befuddled to learn "ask for the manager" leads to "there's an online application kiosk by the door, go there." Usually along with "we don't have any openings, but we keep it on file for 6 months!"