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What happens is that many on HN were around in 2009-2011 when it first appeared and was cheap. Everyone who didn't buy in then has a vested interest in it faili

What happens is that many on HN were around in 2009-2011 when it first appeared and was cheap. Everyone who didn't buy in then has a vested interest in it failing because then they feel like they didn't miss out and that their decision not to get involved was validated. It is becoming apparent as time goes by that there are very many of them here. I seem to have attracted some that downvote every comment I make.

southerntofu 5y ago
I owned Bitcoin back in 2012-2014 when i thought it was going to be an actual currency to exchange goods and services. Since then, it has become a tool for speculation and an ecological disaster, both of which are strongly opposed to my ethos. I now own precisely 0€ worth of Bitcoin and strongly recommend all my friends never to fall into that kind of trap. Because capitalism and speculation ruins lives, whether you trade stocks or magic BTC numbers. I'm not alone: https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disaster.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...
- celticninja 5y ago
  >capitalism and speculation ruin lives And yet here you are on hackernews, owned and run by ycombinator, an organisation that exists to capitalise on both of these things, with the aim of making a small group of investors and founders very very rich. https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position? I am more than aware of my position and my surroundings. But i don't feel any dissonance, though i do feel a lot of ethical/ideological conflict in these forums (which i'm happy to take part in on occasion).
  - celticninja 5y ago
    For reference I also got involved in a similar period and used it successfully to transact business with people in foreign countries at a much lower cost than via bank transactions. Yes bitcoin has pivoted now to a store of wealth or even a cheap way to move large sums and it is less efficient for smaller transactions, but lightning network solves this problem sufficiently. Again pivoting is not something unique to bitcoin and many tech firms have pivoted to find their niche. Being able to react and respond is a feature not a bug.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Are you literally trying to be this guy as some kind of parody? https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
    - celticninja 5y ago
      No, I am having a discussion with someone and trying to understand someone else's position on something on which we are opposed. Is that wrong? Or are you just anti-bitcoin/cryptocurrencies and have come to argue with me and are picking up something without bothering to read the whole context of the comment chain?
- celticninja 5y ago
  Are you in the US? If so do you have a 401k for retirement? That is capitalism and speculation and trading stocks. If you don't what is your retirement plan? I am not a huge fan of capitalism, but here I am living in a world where it exists and I have to survive in it, it's. It going to change before I retire so I need to invest in the stock market via a retirement/pension fund. Of course I could choose not to do that but the only cost there is a negative one for me, it won't change the system.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > what is your retirement plan? I don't exactly have one, because i'm also from the global north (france). I'm betting that before i get to "retire" (i'm not a employee so there's not really a such thing for me) either climate change will collapse the capitalist economy (let's enjoy clear water before industry has used it all) or government will have turned fully fascist and put the rest of us (anarchists, muslims, homosexuals/trans*) in concentration camp... > it won't change the system Do what you need to do. But keep in mind together we're strong enough to change it. Changing the system (which can only happen through a global revolution) is the only thing that matters to give new generations a chance to live a better life than the shitty one we had... and to escape all dystopian scenarios that are slowly coming to life.
    - celticninja 5y ago
      Bring me another option and I'm there in the revolution with you friend. Sitting idly by is not my thing at all, bitcoin was a start to upsetting the existing system but it was never going to do it on its own. So sign me up for the revolution mailing list but let's get some content.
- celticninja 5y ago
  I have had a chance to read the article now. I still have some BTC and I have made money from it. I am not looking to make any money back, I can never make a loss. Same for all the people I advised to get into it in 2011/2013. I am also fortunate and with enough self-awareness to understand that the economy that I operate in is not the same for everyone all over the world. I understand what being un-banked means, I understand the extra costs that come with being poor. I understand that remittances from developed nation to developing nation are a lifeline for many many families. I understand that the traditional ways of sending money to these destinations involve fees as high as 20% or more and doesnt always include the ability to immediately access those funds at the other end. I know that there are unscrupulous Western Union branches/employees that will charge further fees at the receiving end. So whilst it is nice to have a high horse to sit upon, perhaps you could use that perspective to understand that not everyone is in the same position as you. Where you see waste someone else sees financial access, where you see speculation others see utility. You don't plan for the future because you forsee the downfall of society, so through choice you elect not to plan. Others don't plan for the future because they cant plan further than a week or 2 weeks ahead because the subsist and survive on a day to day basis.

southerntofu 5y ago

I owned Bitcoin back in 2012-2014 when i thought it was going to be an actual currency to exchange goods and services. Since then, it has become a tool for speculation and an ecological disaster, both of which are strongly opposed to my ethos. I now own precisely 0€ worth of Bitcoin and strongly recommend all my friends never to fall into that kind of trap. Because capitalism and speculation ruins lives, whether you trade stocks or magic BTC numbers. I'm not alone: https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disaster.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...

celticninja 5y ago
>capitalism and speculation ruin lives And yet here you are on hackernews, owned and run by ycombinator, an organisation that exists to capitalise on both of these things, with the aim of making a small group of investors and founders very very rich. https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position? I am more than aware of my position and my surroundings. But i don't feel any dissonance, though i do feel a lot of ethical/ideological conflict in these forums (which i'm happy to take part in on occasion).
- celticninja 5y ago
  For reference I also got involved in a similar period and used it successfully to transact business with people in foreign countries at a much lower cost than via bank transactions. Yes bitcoin has pivoted now to a store of wealth or even a cheap way to move large sums and it is less efficient for smaller transactions, but lightning network solves this problem sufficiently. Again pivoting is not something unique to bitcoin and many tech firms have pivoted to find their niche. Being able to react and respond is a feature not a bug.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Are you literally trying to be this guy as some kind of parody? https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
  - celticninja 5y ago
    No, I am having a discussion with someone and trying to understand someone else's position on something on which we are opposed. Is that wrong? Or are you just anti-bitcoin/cryptocurrencies and have come to argue with me and are picking up something without bothering to read the whole context of the comment chain?
celticninja 5y ago
Are you in the US? If so do you have a 401k for retirement? That is capitalism and speculation and trading stocks. If you don't what is your retirement plan? I am not a huge fan of capitalism, but here I am living in a world where it exists and I have to survive in it, it's. It going to change before I retire so I need to invest in the stock market via a retirement/pension fund. Of course I could choose not to do that but the only cost there is a negative one for me, it won't change the system.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > what is your retirement plan? I don't exactly have one, because i'm also from the global north (france). I'm betting that before i get to "retire" (i'm not a employee so there's not really a such thing for me) either climate change will collapse the capitalist economy (let's enjoy clear water before industry has used it all) or government will have turned fully fascist and put the rest of us (anarchists, muslims, homosexuals/trans*) in concentration camp... > it won't change the system Do what you need to do. But keep in mind together we're strong enough to change it. Changing the system (which can only happen through a global revolution) is the only thing that matters to give new generations a chance to live a better life than the shitty one we had... and to escape all dystopian scenarios that are slowly coming to life.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    Bring me another option and I'm there in the revolution with you friend. Sitting idly by is not my thing at all, bitcoin was a start to upsetting the existing system but it was never going to do it on its own. So sign me up for the revolution mailing list but let's get some content.
celticninja 5y ago
I have had a chance to read the article now. I still have some BTC and I have made money from it. I am not looking to make any money back, I can never make a loss. Same for all the people I advised to get into it in 2011/2013. I am also fortunate and with enough self-awareness to understand that the economy that I operate in is not the same for everyone all over the world. I understand what being un-banked means, I understand the extra costs that come with being poor. I understand that remittances from developed nation to developing nation are a lifeline for many many families. I understand that the traditional ways of sending money to these destinations involve fees as high as 20% or more and doesnt always include the ability to immediately access those funds at the other end. I know that there are unscrupulous Western Union branches/employees that will charge further fees at the receiving end. So whilst it is nice to have a high horse to sit upon, perhaps you could use that perspective to understand that not everyone is in the same position as you. Where you see waste someone else sees financial access, where you see speculation others see utility. You don't plan for the future because you forsee the downfall of society, so through choice you elect not to plan. Others don't plan for the future because they cant plan further than a week or 2 weeks ahead because the subsist and survive on a day to day basis.