5 ms·

Like the OP said, it will force their citizen to understand how it works. One can speculate that the average Salvadorian will understand more about Bitcoin than

Like the OP said, it will force their citizen to understand how it works. One can speculate that the average Salvadorian will understand more about Bitcoin than the average HN reader.

chedine 5y ago
Average HN is a salty nocoiner.
- zenincognito 5y ago
  Thats a gross generalisation. One would think, that average HNer would be a coiner because of their background.
  - chinathrow 5y ago
    Why would I be a coiner? Bitcoin is still wasteful as fuck.
  - Danieru 5y ago
    Nope, lots of people here are just like me: proud salty nocoiners. We poor old salty nocoiners can only wipe our flowing tears with the 100$ rags from our fat wallets. Oh poor us, we foolishly put our wealth into cashflow producing assets. Oh the sorrow every quarter as the dividends are deposited in our flash-loan-hack-proof bank accounts.
    - Tenoke 5y ago
      Thats a weird thing to brag about - if talking about past returns there's few 'cash flow producing assets' that'd have done as well as just putting the money in btc. Also flash loans don't take anything out of your wallet/account either and I know of people whose bank accounts have been hacked. There's plenty to complain about btc but you've somehow chosen the least convincing argument for why you are a noncoiner.
      - Clewza313 5y ago
        Bitcoins do not produce any cash flow, the only way to profit is to sell them to a greater fool.
        Tenoke 5y ago
        There's plenty of crypto (including e.g. ETH) that does so via staking but that wasn't the point anyway.
        Clewza313 5y ago
        No, this was the GP's point. Many of those "salty nocoiners" are invested in assets that produce reliable cash flow, which is considerably safer than holding a purely speculative asset like crypto.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Victims of bank fraud mostly receive their money back by the bank. This one recent example of an crypto exchange that fled with the money, has defrauded more in value than the entire ACH payment system worth ~51T ( fraud = 0,0008 % = 0,08 basis points). https://www.engadget.com/africrypt-bitcoin-disappearance-174636634.html https://www.engadget.com/africrypt-bitcoin-disappearance-174... https://silamoney.com/ach/understanding-the-basics-of-ach-fraud/ https://silamoney.com/ach/understanding-the-basics-of-ach-fr...
        Tenoke 5y ago
        That's not a hack that's a scam.
        NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Both are labeled as fraud.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      That's not completely true. I left it at ~18 k. A couple of years ago as i didn't saw a path to become profitable. I suppose a lot of HN'ers joined early on and left by now. My stocks are doing good enough for me to not care at all about crypto since then. Even if that wouldn't be the case, I wouldn't invest in something that I don't think has a viable path. Eg. The current solutions are using off-chain centralized transactions to fix core things ( eg. transaction fee).
  - celticninja 5y ago
    What happens is that many on HN were around in 2009-2011 when it first appeared and was cheap. Everyone who didn't buy in then has a vested interest in it failing because then they feel like they didn't miss out and that their decision not to get involved was validated. It is becoming apparent as time goes by that there are very many of them here. I seem to have attracted some that downvote every comment I make.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      I owned Bitcoin back in 2012-2014 when i thought it was going to be an actual currency to exchange goods and services. Since then, it has become a tool for speculation and an ecological disaster, both of which are strongly opposed to my ethos. I now own precisely 0€ worth of Bitcoin and strongly recommend all my friends never to fall into that kind of trap. Because capitalism and speculation ruins lives, whether you trade stocks or magic BTC numbers. I'm not alone: https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disaster.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...
      - celticninja 5y ago
        >capitalism and speculation ruin lives And yet here you are on hackernews, owned and run by ycombinator, an organisation that exists to capitalise on both of these things, with the aim of making a small group of investors and founders very very rich. https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?
        southerntofu 5y ago
        > Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position? I am more than aware of my position and my surroundings. But i don't feel any dissonance, though i do feel a lot of ethical/ideological conflict in these forums (which i'm happy to take part in on occasion).
        celticninja 5y ago
        For reference I also got involved in a similar period and used it successfully to transact business with people in foreign countries at a much lower cost than via bank transactions. Yes bitcoin has pivoted now to a store of wealth or even a cheap way to move large sums and it is less efficient for smaller transactions, but lightning network solves this problem sufficiently. Again pivoting is not something unique to bitcoin and many tech firms have pivoted to find their niche. Being able to react and respond is a feature not a bug.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    It may be a gross generalization but based on the majority of comments on HN, it is unfortunately an accurate one. Not only are the comments salty, they are generally ill-informed. See Dang’s recent call to HN for more insightful comments and less vitriol for example. It hurts me to say this about HN because on other topics comments are often deeply insightful but when it comes to Bitcoin (and other cryptos) HN comments are often ignorant and dismissive.
- eur00t 5y ago
  I notice that hn largely ignores blockchain tech. It almost feels luddite.
  - h4kor 5y ago
    Most (software) engineers understand rather quickly that blockchains are a wasteful solutions to problems that are already solved by other methods.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    There's a lot of very pro and very anti blockchain people here and I'm not even sure which are the majority.
    - eur00t 5y ago
      Yeah, the blockchain-related discussions become highly polarized. This one has been removed by mods rather quickly.
  - tffgg 5y ago
    Because it is over hyped by coin owners who want you to buy coins and make them rich
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      Yeah, pro-coiners probably fail to realize, if they've put their money in it, that means they've bought the hype. And people don't like to believe they're stupid, but since they also have a confirmation bias, they also look for proof that they're right, and all the stories from random websites saying "Crypto is the future!" remain in their minds, while all the skeptical articles, they just say "Pah, another luddite!" and dismiss.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    That's not true. Blockchain tech is unrelated to bitcoins/crypto's. Just like Stackoverflow doesn't correlate with the value of the .Net framework or HN doesn't correlate with the value of the ARC programming language ( since it's build on that tech) It's an example of the tech, but the value of blockchain does not have a correlation with any of the 8000 implementations as crypto. Additionally, the implementation of El Salvador uses Lightning network and since that obfuscates transactions off-chain to a centralized authority. It's not what i'd call blockchain anymore.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  The opinions of any person seriously using the label "salty nocoiner" can be safely ignored now, and in future.

Like the OP said, it will force their citizen to understand how it works. One can speculate that the average Salvadorian will understand more about Bitcoin than the average HN reader.

chedine 5y ago

Average HN is a salty nocoiner.

zenincognito 5y ago
Thats a gross generalisation. One would think, that average HNer would be a coiner because of their background.
- chinathrow 5y ago
  Why would I be a coiner? Bitcoin is still wasteful as fuck.
- Danieru 5y ago
  Nope, lots of people here are just like me: proud salty nocoiners. We poor old salty nocoiners can only wipe our flowing tears with the 100$ rags from our fat wallets. Oh poor us, we foolishly put our wealth into cashflow producing assets. Oh the sorrow every quarter as the dividends are deposited in our flash-loan-hack-proof bank accounts.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    Thats a weird thing to brag about - if talking about past returns there's few 'cash flow producing assets' that'd have done as well as just putting the money in btc. Also flash loans don't take anything out of your wallet/account either and I know of people whose bank accounts have been hacked. There's plenty to complain about btc but you've somehow chosen the least convincing argument for why you are a noncoiner.
    - Clewza313 5y ago
      Bitcoins do not produce any cash flow, the only way to profit is to sell them to a greater fool.
      - Tenoke 5y ago
        There's plenty of crypto (including e.g. ETH) that does so via staking but that wasn't the point anyway.
        Clewza313 5y ago
        No, this was the GP's point. Many of those "salty nocoiners" are invested in assets that produce reliable cash flow, which is considerably safer than holding a purely speculative asset like crypto.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Victims of bank fraud mostly receive their money back by the bank. This one recent example of an crypto exchange that fled with the money, has defrauded more in value than the entire ACH payment system worth ~51T ( fraud = 0,0008 % = 0,08 basis points). https://www.engadget.com/africrypt-bitcoin-disappearance-174636634.html https://www.engadget.com/africrypt-bitcoin-disappearance-174... https://silamoney.com/ach/understanding-the-basics-of-ach-fraud/ https://silamoney.com/ach/understanding-the-basics-of-ach-fr...
      - Tenoke 5y ago
        That's not a hack that's a scam.
        NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Both are labeled as fraud.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    That's not completely true. I left it at ~18 k. A couple of years ago as i didn't saw a path to become profitable. I suppose a lot of HN'ers joined early on and left by now. My stocks are doing good enough for me to not care at all about crypto since then. Even if that wouldn't be the case, I wouldn't invest in something that I don't think has a viable path. Eg. The current solutions are using off-chain centralized transactions to fix core things ( eg. transaction fee).
- celticninja 5y ago
  What happens is that many on HN were around in 2009-2011 when it first appeared and was cheap. Everyone who didn't buy in then has a vested interest in it failing because then they feel like they didn't miss out and that their decision not to get involved was validated. It is becoming apparent as time goes by that there are very many of them here. I seem to have attracted some that downvote every comment I make.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    I owned Bitcoin back in 2012-2014 when i thought it was going to be an actual currency to exchange goods and services. Since then, it has become a tool for speculation and an ecological disaster, both of which are strongly opposed to my ethos. I now own precisely 0€ worth of Bitcoin and strongly recommend all my friends never to fall into that kind of trap. Because capitalism and speculation ruins lives, whether you trade stocks or magic BTC numbers. I'm not alone: https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disaster.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/04/26/Cryptocurrency-is-a-disas...
    - celticninja 5y ago
      >capitalism and speculation ruin lives And yet here you are on hackernews, owned and run by ycombinator, an organisation that exists to capitalise on both of these things, with the aim of making a small group of investors and founders very very rich. https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ https://www.ycombinator.com/topcompanies/ Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position?
      - southerntofu 5y ago
        > Are you aware of the cognitive dissonance in your position? I am more than aware of my position and my surroundings. But i don't feel any dissonance, though i do feel a lot of ethical/ideological conflict in these forums (which i'm happy to take part in on occasion).
      - celticninja 5y ago
        For reference I also got involved in a similar period and used it successfully to transact business with people in foreign countries at a much lower cost than via bank transactions. Yes bitcoin has pivoted now to a store of wealth or even a cheap way to move large sums and it is less efficient for smaller transactions, but lightning network solves this problem sufficiently. Again pivoting is not something unique to bitcoin and many tech firms have pivoted to find their niche. Being able to react and respond is a feature not a bug.
- lowkey 5y ago
  It may be a gross generalization but based on the majority of comments on HN, it is unfortunately an accurate one. Not only are the comments salty, they are generally ill-informed. See Dang’s recent call to HN for more insightful comments and less vitriol for example. It hurts me to say this about HN because on other topics comments are often deeply insightful but when it comes to Bitcoin (and other cryptos) HN comments are often ignorant and dismissive.
eur00t 5y ago
I notice that hn largely ignores blockchain tech. It almost feels luddite.
- h4kor 5y ago
  Most (software) engineers understand rather quickly that blockchains are a wasteful solutions to problems that are already solved by other methods.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  There's a lot of very pro and very anti blockchain people here and I'm not even sure which are the majority.
  - eur00t 5y ago
    Yeah, the blockchain-related discussions become highly polarized. This one has been removed by mods rather quickly.
- tffgg 5y ago
  Because it is over hyped by coin owners who want you to buy coins and make them rich
  - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
    Yeah, pro-coiners probably fail to realize, if they've put their money in it, that means they've bought the hype. And people don't like to believe they're stupid, but since they also have a confirmation bias, they also look for proof that they're right, and all the stories from random websites saying "Crypto is the future!" remain in their minds, while all the skeptical articles, they just say "Pah, another luddite!" and dismiss.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  That's not true. Blockchain tech is unrelated to bitcoins/crypto's. Just like Stackoverflow doesn't correlate with the value of the .Net framework or HN doesn't correlate with the value of the ARC programming language ( since it's build on that tech) It's an example of the tech, but the value of blockchain does not have a correlation with any of the 8000 implementations as crypto. Additionally, the implementation of El Salvador uses Lightning network and since that obfuscates transactions off-chain to a centralized authority. It's not what i'd call blockchain anymore.
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
The opinions of any person seriously using the label "salty nocoiner" can be safely ignored now, and in future.