5 ms·

Why should the industry accept as inevitable, even push forward aggressively, on the paradigm that every single device (even non computing ones) should be netwo

Why should the industry accept as inevitable, even push forward aggressively, on the paradigm that every single device (even non computing ones) should be network connected 24x7? Are we always mind-connected to every other human? Wouldn't that open us to all sorts of hacking? I think the s/w and IoT industry needs to step back and consider if they aren't inventing problems rather than solving them.

lostlogin 5y ago
Some of it is beyond strange too. Even self hosted things break. The Unifi Dream Machine Pro or Plex seem to insist on a WAN connection to their home and break without it.
Syonyk 5y ago
Because that's apparently the "solution" to the existential horror that someone might buy something, pay money once, and then use it for a long time and maybe even fix it if it breaks. Instead, of course, the desired end state is that nobody ever buys anything, but is always on the hook for endless "rental" and "subscription" fees. More profitable that way for the companies producing the crap. Unfortunately, they also believe (rightly or wrongly, I don't know, I'm not the target market here) that unless things have an App(TM) to go with it, nobody will buy it. Why would you buy a "dumb toaster" when you can buy an app-enabled "smart toaster" with firmware updates and the ability to send your phone a notification when your toast is done? Standing in the kitchen listening for the ding is soooooo old fashioned! And, the reality is that most of the companies pushing stuff like that are also "data extraction" companies. There are other companies that pay what, apparently, is reasonably large sums of money for "big data elements" about people. How often do you make toast? Do you like your toast light or dark? What sort of bread do you like? What time do you eat breakfast? Do you sleep in on weekends and make toast later? Do you like eggs on your toast? Do you eat it in a box? Do you eat it with a fox? Do you eat it here or there? Will you make toast anywhere? Why this is so valuable, I've no idea, but I certainly want no part of this ecosystem. I've been considering a streaming stick of some sort to replace what appears to be a dying NUC, and some of the "privacy" policies are utterly absurd. Roku's is the worst. It roughly amounts to, "Anything we can think of, we will do and upload, to include scanning your network to find out what else you use. Once we have the data, we will do anything we want with it. And if the laws of your country would make that a problem, we'll just move it to another country that doesn't care and use it there." Really quite horrifying to read. But they're absolutely inventing new problems - that your device is suddenly without firmware updates and "Oh No, Security Issues!" The solution is, of course, for you to buy another one to replace what would be a perfectly functional one, but they got bored, and updates are hard, and... seriously, who uses a hard drive more than like... 2 years, anyway? Over the years, I've been increasingly spending my free time away from the internet, working with what seems to be a trend towards older and older machinery. Motorcycles from the early 2000s (some based on late 1930s designs with fairly little evolution since then), a tractor from the early 40s, a car from 1930, etc. And it's a nice breath of fresh air (well, and usually a bit of gas vapors...) compared to the modern stuff. They were built to be maintained, repaired, and have no bloody firmware in them. It's a nice direction.
MattGaiser 5y ago
> Why should the industry accept as inevitable, even push forward aggressively, on the paradigm that every single device (even non computing ones) should be network connected 24x7? A major software defect would be hard to repair otherwise.
- akie 5y ago
  A major software defect would be hard to repair or introduce otherwise.
- smarx007 5y ago
  Yes, your statement is correct but I disagree with what you are implying. Please remember that I am the owner of the devices I bought and whether to repair any defect in MY devices should be my decision.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  Then maybe it should have been tested first. Back when Consumer Reports was testing the Model 3 and found that the brakes sucked compared to other cars, Tesla overnighted them an OTA update and fixed the problem, and everyone seemed focused on how amazing it was that Tesla could do this, and how dealership visits will be a thing of the past, etc. Very few people asked how they managed to ship a car with both defective brakes out of the box, that were easily fixed with a software update. That's the sort of thing automakers used to test, rather extensively, before sending cars out for testing and use. I'm old enough to remember when games shipped complete, not "broken and we'll patch it later." I'm not sure the changes have been an improvement. I'm aware that modern cars ship with something like 150M lines of code, and that nobody could possibly be expected to make sure they're all correct. My solution of "Maybe we shouldn't ship gigabytes of untested and often broken software in a car?" doesn't seem to be very popular.

lostlogin 5y ago

Some of it is beyond strange too. Even self hosted things break. The Unifi Dream Machine Pro or Plex seem to insist on a WAN connection to their home and break without it.

Syonyk 5y ago

Because that's apparently the "solution" to the existential horror that someone might buy something, pay money once, and then use it for a long time and maybe even fix it if it breaks. Instead, of course, the desired end state is that nobody ever buys anything, but is always on the hook for endless "rental" and "subscription" fees. More profitable that way for the companies producing the crap. Unfortunately, they also believe (rightly or wrongly, I don't know, I'm not the target market here) that unless things have an App(TM) to go with it, nobody will buy it. Why would you buy a "dumb toaster" when you can buy an app-enabled "smart toaster" with firmware updates and the ability to send your phone a notification when your toast is done? Standing in the kitchen listening for the ding is soooooo old fashioned! And, the reality is that most of the companies pushing stuff like that are also "data extraction" companies. There are other companies that pay what, apparently, is reasonably large sums of money for "big data elements" about people. How often do you make toast? Do you like your toast light or dark? What sort of bread do you like? What time do you eat breakfast? Do you sleep in on weekends and make toast later? Do you like eggs on your toast? Do you eat it in a box? Do you eat it with a fox? Do you eat it here or there? Will you make toast anywhere? Why this is so valuable, I've no idea, but I certainly want no part of this ecosystem. I've been considering a streaming stick of some sort to replace what appears to be a dying NUC, and some of the "privacy" policies are utterly absurd. Roku's is the worst. It roughly amounts to, "Anything we can think of, we will do and upload, to include scanning your network to find out what else you use. Once we have the data, we will do anything we want with it. And if the laws of your country would make that a problem, we'll just move it to another country that doesn't care and use it there." Really quite horrifying to read. But they're absolutely inventing new problems - that your device is suddenly without firmware updates and "Oh No, Security Issues!" The solution is, of course, for you to buy another one to replace what would be a perfectly functional one, but they got bored, and updates are hard, and... seriously, who uses a hard drive more than like... 2 years, anyway? Over the years, I've been increasingly spending my free time away from the internet, working with what seems to be a trend towards older and older machinery. Motorcycles from the early 2000s (some based on late 1930s designs with fairly little evolution since then), a tractor from the early 40s, a car from 1930, etc. And it's a nice breath of fresh air (well, and usually a bit of gas vapors...) compared to the modern stuff. They were built to be maintained, repaired, and have no bloody firmware in them. It's a nice direction.

MattGaiser 5y ago

> Why should the industry accept as inevitable, even push forward aggressively, on the paradigm that every single device (even non computing ones) should be network connected 24x7? A major software defect would be hard to repair otherwise.

akie 5y ago
A major software defect would be hard to repair or introduce otherwise.
smarx007 5y ago
Yes, your statement is correct but I disagree with what you are implying. Please remember that I am the owner of the devices I bought and whether to repair any defect in MY devices should be my decision.
Syonyk 5y ago
Then maybe it should have been tested first. Back when Consumer Reports was testing the Model 3 and found that the brakes sucked compared to other cars, Tesla overnighted them an OTA update and fixed the problem, and everyone seemed focused on how amazing it was that Tesla could do this, and how dealership visits will be a thing of the past, etc. Very few people asked how they managed to ship a car with both defective brakes out of the box, that were easily fixed with a software update. That's the sort of thing automakers used to test, rather extensively, before sending cars out for testing and use. I'm old enough to remember when games shipped complete, not "broken and we'll patch it later." I'm not sure the changes have been an improvement. I'm aware that modern cars ship with something like 150M lines of code, and that nobody could possibly be expected to make sure they're all correct. My solution of "Maybe we shouldn't ship gigabytes of untested and often broken software in a car?" doesn't seem to be very popular.