6 ms·

Now imagine how car manufactures are going to be able to deal with this in a few years. This shit is coming.

echelon 5y ago
You're posting this on the site where many people want to subscribe to cars as a service. We're getting what we deserve.
- a_t48 5y ago
  Isn’t that just leasing?
  - hardwaresofton 5y ago
    Yeah but leasing the physical car normally meant you got the car and all associated functionality, for the duration of the lease. The alarming change here is incorporating a lease (of software/hardware controlled functionality) into the actual purchase of a car. See: John Deere & tractors, Right to Repair, etc.
  - ta988 5y ago
    Leasing where you paid the full price upfront anyway and is still charged the regular fees.
  - asplake 5y ago
    The ultimate subscription would be to the kind of car I need right now, just in time
  - ric2b 5y ago
    I think a subscription would be different in that you'd be able to easily switch to a different car on demand, for example if you needed a truck/van to carry some stuff. And possibly work like electric scooters, you just park the car and it's not your problem, the next day you use a different one that's close by.
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  Agreed. We've asked for this. I talked to a non-technical Tesla owner friend of mine and I was expressing the sentiment that I didn't want a Tesla because I didn't want to join the rent-extraction everything-is-a-SaaS world that Tesla (and just about every business) seems to be driving towards. His response was of course about how he's never had to pay for any upgrades or anything like that for his Tesla. A lot of people have jumped on this train with us (the "techies") because some of said it was awesome and the best version of the future and it seems like a lot of people do not see where this track is leading and will be surprised when we get to the terminus. (all puns are intended)
  - mancerayder 5y ago
    Other than the Acceleration Boost and Full Self-Driving options available for purchase, what's rent extraction with the Tesla? I mean they'd need to disable a feature and then charge you for it in a future release, I suppose. Then again buy or lease a BMW and you'll need to pay a lot of money to the dealer for simple parts to be changed, because a, the parts are pricey, b, the parts are hard to access. The Tesla at least doesn't have that -hardware- issue. I'm a recent Tesla owner. What's the worst case scenario you're envisaging ?
    - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
      I’ve seen this a couple times and, whatever Tesla’s plans might be, the current Tesla lineup is not a “rent extraction” scheme: the only subscription is the option to pay for cell connectivity for media and a couple other things. If anything, it’s traditional manufacturers like BMW ( https://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-subscription-model-for-features-2020-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-subscription-model-for-f... ) that are pushing for this, not Tesla.
      - hardwaresofton 5y ago
        You don't think this is a reaction to what Tesla is doing? I see this as manufacturers trying to get in on the wave that Tesla is starting but doing it awkwardly since they don't have a "acceleration" or "full self driving" mode to push. The blurb at the top of the Tesla upgrades page (https://www.tesla.com/support/upgrades https://www.tesla.com/support/upgrades) feels like it would be a shot across the bow for any car company in the same premium car market that Tesla operates in. I really don't think this monetization model was considered heavily before Tesla existed. Info-tainment sure, but the rest of the car I don't think so.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Wait until they age out of the easy money. They will be looking for vehicles that are easily repaired.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  Cars-as-a-service in the purest sense, as in literally borrowing a car from time to time, is great; at least in a city that's built ok
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
fny 5y ago
This shit is here. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39898319 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39898319 https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-its-consequences/ https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-i... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/honda-recalls-1-4m-u-s-vehicles-software-other-problems-n1251496 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/honda-recalls-1-4m... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-cherokees-recalled-over-slipping-transmissions-software-issues/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-cherokees-recalled-over-sl... https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/mercedes-benz-recall-342000-us-vehicles-over-software-troubles https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/mercedes-benz-rec... https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-recall-involving-certain-prius-and-prius-v-vehicles/ https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-r... https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/tesla-recalls-135000-cars/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/tesla-recalls-135000-cars... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-issues-recall-and-engine-software-update-for-certain-sonata-and-santa-fe-sport-vehicles-300779640.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-issues-reca... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-emissions-idUSKCN1G728U https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-emissions-idUSKCN1G72... https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-volkswagen-software-idUSKBN29H15Q https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-volkswagen-software-idUSK... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/nissan-issues-huge-recall-on-several-2018-19-nissan-and-infiniti-models/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/nissan-issues-huge-recall-on-se... https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/08/audi-recalls-144k-vehicles-due-to-risk-software-defect-could-disable-air-bags.html https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/08/audi-recalls-144k-vehicle... https://www.automotive-fleet.com/336135/mazda-recalls-three-models-for-pcm-software-error https://www.automotive-fleet.com/336135/mazda-recalls-three-... https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/gms-software-recall-just-causing-more-brake-problems/ https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/gms-software-recal... https://www.motorsafety.org/subaru-recalls-2020-legacy-and-outback-cars-for-back-up-camera-glitch/ https://www.motorsafety.org/subaru-recalls-2020-legacy-and-o...
- bobmaxup 5y ago
  Do you keep a list? Is there a good source for tracking large-scale software defects?
  - 5y ago
arthurcolle 5y ago
TSLA 550p expiring next year is always the sexiest thing ever lmao
- judge2020 5y ago
  You say that like consumers considering a Tesla are that worried about this and might not purchase the car due to the possibility.

You're posting this on the site where many people want to subscribe to cars as a service. We're getting what we deserve.

a_t48 5y ago
Isn’t that just leasing?
- hardwaresofton 5y ago
  Yeah but leasing the physical car normally meant you got the car and all associated functionality, for the duration of the lease. The alarming change here is incorporating a lease (of software/hardware controlled functionality) into the actual purchase of a car. See: John Deere & tractors, Right to Repair, etc.
- ta988 5y ago
  Leasing where you paid the full price upfront anyway and is still charged the regular fees.
- asplake 5y ago
  The ultimate subscription would be to the kind of car I need right now, just in time
- ric2b 5y ago
  I think a subscription would be different in that you'd be able to easily switch to a different car on demand, for example if you needed a truck/van to carry some stuff. And possibly work like electric scooters, you just park the car and it's not your problem, the next day you use a different one that's close by.
hardwaresofton 5y ago
Agreed. We've asked for this. I talked to a non-technical Tesla owner friend of mine and I was expressing the sentiment that I didn't want a Tesla because I didn't want to join the rent-extraction everything-is-a-SaaS world that Tesla (and just about every business) seems to be driving towards. His response was of course about how he's never had to pay for any upgrades or anything like that for his Tesla. A lot of people have jumped on this train with us (the "techies") because some of said it was awesome and the best version of the future and it seems like a lot of people do not see where this track is leading and will be surprised when we get to the terminus. (all puns are intended)
- mancerayder 5y ago
  Other than the Acceleration Boost and Full Self-Driving options available for purchase, what's rent extraction with the Tesla? I mean they'd need to disable a feature and then charge you for it in a future release, I suppose. Then again buy or lease a BMW and you'll need to pay a lot of money to the dealer for simple parts to be changed, because a, the parts are pricey, b, the parts are hard to access. The Tesla at least doesn't have that -hardware- issue. I'm a recent Tesla owner. What's the worst case scenario you're envisaging ?
  - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
    I’ve seen this a couple times and, whatever Tesla’s plans might be, the current Tesla lineup is not a “rent extraction” scheme: the only subscription is the option to pay for cell connectivity for media and a couple other things. If anything, it’s traditional manufacturers like BMW ( https://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-subscription-model-for-features-2020-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-subscription-model-for-f... ) that are pushing for this, not Tesla.
    - hardwaresofton 5y ago
      You don't think this is a reaction to what Tesla is doing? I see this as manufacturers trying to get in on the wave that Tesla is starting but doing it awkwardly since they don't have a "acceleration" or "full self driving" mode to push. The blurb at the top of the Tesla upgrades page (https://www.tesla.com/support/upgrades https://www.tesla.com/support/upgrades) feels like it would be a shot across the bow for any car company in the same premium car market that Tesla operates in. I really don't think this monetization model was considered heavily before Tesla existed. Info-tainment sure, but the rest of the car I don't think so.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Wait until they age out of the easy money. They will be looking for vehicles that are easily repaired.
brailsafe 5y ago
Cars-as-a-service in the purest sense, as in literally borrowing a car from time to time, is great; at least in a city that's built ok
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

fny 5y ago

This shit is here. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39898319 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39898319 https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-its-consequences/ https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-i... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/honda-recalls-1-4m-u-s-vehicles-software-other-problems-n1251496 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/honda-recalls-1-4m... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-cherokees-recalled-over-slipping-transmissions-software-issues/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-cherokees-recalled-over-sl... https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/mercedes-benz-recall-342000-us-vehicles-over-software-troubles https://www.autonews.com/regulation-safety/mercedes-benz-rec... https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-recall-involving-certain-prius-and-prius-v-vehicles/ https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-r... https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/tesla-recalls-135000-cars/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/tesla-recalls-135000-cars... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-issues-recall-and-engine-software-update-for-certain-sonata-and-santa-fe-sport-vehicles-300779640.html https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-issues-reca... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-emissions-idUSKCN1G728U https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-emissions-idUSKCN1G72... https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-volkswagen-software-idUSKBN29H15Q https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-volkswagen-software-idUSK... https://www.motorbiscuit.com/nissan-issues-huge-recall-on-several-2018-19-nissan-and-infiniti-models/ https://www.motorbiscuit.com/nissan-issues-huge-recall-on-se... https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/08/audi-recalls-144k-vehicles-due-to-risk-software-defect-could-disable-air-bags.html https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/08/audi-recalls-144k-vehicle... https://www.automotive-fleet.com/336135/mazda-recalls-three-models-for-pcm-software-error https://www.automotive-fleet.com/336135/mazda-recalls-three-... https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/gms-software-recall-just-causing-more-brake-problems/ https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/02/gms-software-recal... https://www.motorsafety.org/subaru-recalls-2020-legacy-and-outback-cars-for-back-up-camera-glitch/ https://www.motorsafety.org/subaru-recalls-2020-legacy-and-o...

bobmaxup 5y ago
Do you keep a list? Is there a good source for tracking large-scale software defects?
- 5y ago

arthurcolle 5y ago

TSLA 550p expiring next year is always the sexiest thing ever lmao

judge2020 5y ago
You say that like consumers considering a Tesla are that worried about this and might not purchase the car due to the possibility.