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Isn’t DNS de-facto centralised too?

elliottinvent 5y ago
I think you could argue DNS over HTTPS is centralised (for now) with Cloudflare, Quad9, Google making up the main players. But I think the DNS is the original decentralised system due to the amount of players in the domain registrar / DNS service provider / ISP [DNS resolver] space.
nine_k 5y ago
Yes in the sense that DNS is a tree with a single root. No in the sense that you can put your data into leaves of your choice and under your control. You can easily run your own DNS server. Halfway-yes in the sense that this thing uses HTTPS access to DNS which has few providers now, and not the classic DNS because UDP from a browser is hard, and even arbitrary TCP from a browser is hard. I think that the use of DNS is a bit of a gimmick on this demo site; it could be more practically used in more interesting ways. A demo site should be and is very straightforward. But the idea of storing semantic-web-style information in the DNS looks interesting to me, and the suggested simplified format may be worth a look. The service NUM is offering is also interesting, and one of the key parts of it is that it's not storing your data, so you are not beholden to it. It helps make them accessible, but you store the data yourself.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Ok, but, you can easily run your own Postgres server too, right?
  - nine_k 5y ago
    Its data won't be cached by any number of caching DNS resolvers. If your DNS server has 90% uptime, but your domain if often resolved, clients may not notice anything; if your database has 90% uptime, it's pretty noticeable. It of course only applies if the TTL of your records is long enough, but usually you don't need short TTL for TXT records of such kind.
    - bawolff 5y ago
      But aren't you specificly using cloudflare's DoH endpoint to do the query? Wouldn't that mean that there aren't any caches other than cloudflare's? In which case, why not just put your website behind cloudflare?
      - elliottinvent 5y ago
        Only this website uses CF DoH. It’s just an example of how data from the protocol can be used. The data is stored in vanilla DNS so would be cached by any resolver that queries it.
bawolff 5y ago
I feel like saying something is "decentralized" is like saying something is "secure". Its a meaningless statement. Nothing is 100% secure and nothing is 100% decentralized. The relavent questions are from whom? Against what?

I think you could argue DNS over HTTPS is centralised (for now) with Cloudflare, Quad9, Google making up the main players. But I think the DNS is the original decentralised system due to the amount of players in the domain registrar / DNS service provider / ISP [DNS resolver] space.

nine_k 5y ago

Yes in the sense that DNS is a tree with a single root. No in the sense that you can put your data into leaves of your choice and under your control. You can easily run your own DNS server. Halfway-yes in the sense that this thing uses HTTPS access to DNS which has few providers now, and not the classic DNS because UDP from a browser is hard, and even arbitrary TCP from a browser is hard. I think that the use of DNS is a bit of a gimmick on this demo site; it could be more practically used in more interesting ways. A demo site should be and is very straightforward. But the idea of storing semantic-web-style information in the DNS looks interesting to me, and the suggested simplified format may be worth a look. The service NUM is offering is also interesting, and one of the key parts of it is that it's not storing your data, so you are not beholden to it. It helps make them accessible, but you store the data yourself.

tptacek 5y ago
Ok, but, you can easily run your own Postgres server too, right?
- nine_k 5y ago
  Its data won't be cached by any number of caching DNS resolvers. If your DNS server has 90% uptime, but your domain if often resolved, clients may not notice anything; if your database has 90% uptime, it's pretty noticeable. It of course only applies if the TTL of your records is long enough, but usually you don't need short TTL for TXT records of such kind.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    But aren't you specificly using cloudflare's DoH endpoint to do the query? Wouldn't that mean that there aren't any caches other than cloudflare's? In which case, why not just put your website behind cloudflare?
    - elliottinvent 5y ago
      Only this website uses CF DoH. It’s just an example of how data from the protocol can be used. The data is stored in vanilla DNS so would be cached by any resolver that queries it.

bawolff 5y ago

I feel like saying something is "decentralized" is like saying something is "secure". Its a meaningless statement. Nothing is 100% secure and nothing is 100% decentralized. The relavent questions are from whom? Against what?