4 ms·

> That obviously not necessarily true. One can imagine a change in law that limits tax sheltering of this type for any individual to say, 10mm. A tiny fraction

> That obviously not necessarily true. One can imagine a change in law that limits tax sheltering of this type for any individual to say, 10mm. A tiny fraction of the population would be affected. Or limit the types of assets that can be held in an IRA to those that are publicly traded and can be bought on the open market. It seems like an important part of this scheme was Thiel basically got to set the price of some shares he sold himself, because they weren't publicly traded at the time.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
Then you are limiting what people can do with their money 2 inflating stock prices of giant companies. What if I want to invest in a friend's business or buy a rental property. Are you saying it should be illegal for me to do that with my IRA?
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > Then you are limiting what people can do with their money 2 inflating stock prices of giant companies. So? It's what 99.999% of them do anyway. > What if I want to invest in a friend's business or buy a rental property. Are you saying it should be illegal for me to do that with my IRA? Yes.
  - icedchai 5y ago
    No. IRA is funded with your money, so you should be able to do with it what you please. Next you'll be telling people they can only buy ETFs because stocks are too risky.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Better yet, they can only invest in blue-chip companies
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > No. IRA is funded with your money, so you should be able to do with it what you please. No. You can't even do what you please with money that's not in an IRA. And I mean, you already have to accept other restrictions to enjoy the tax advantages of an IRA, so what's so bad about adding another small one to solve this problem?
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        All money is yours legally. The gov can tax it. Some things are are illegal to do with money and assets, but that doesn't mean that everything belongs to the government
      - icedchai 5y ago
        If you can legally invest in an asset in a taxable account, you should be able to invest in the same when its an IRA. Anyone can take advantage of this. Why do you want to restrict the way people invest their retirement funds?
    - snotrockets 5y ago
      The gains over doing the same at a taxable accounts are not your money, but public funds (the taxes not paid on those).
      - icedchai 5y ago
        With taxable accounts, it is legally your assets, gains or not. You pay taxes when you sell. Just like with a traditional, non-Roth IRA: you pay taxes when you withdraw. The IRS makes the rules.
        snotrockets 5y ago
        The IRS doesn't make the rules, but enforces them. Unlike a somewhat popular opinion on this website, the law isn't an algorithm, but a codification of societal norms, like that we all share the expanses of living in civilized society. Yes, the TRANSFER of assets happens at time of sell or withdrawal, but the share taxes was painted such when we (the people, through legislation. Not the IRS!) decided that such share should be dedicated to society. This isn't about letter of the law, and never was: it's being an asshole.
        icedchai 5y ago
        That doesn't even make sense. The "share" is not known until the assets are sold or withdrawn, and also subject to change based on whatever tax law happens to be at the time. If I hold a stock long term, instead of day trading and accruing short term gains and associated taxes, am I being an asshole?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - kybernetikos 5y ago
      You can do what you please with your money and one of your choices is to put it in an ira or not. If you've decided to put it in a specially tax advantaged shelter defined by the government then you follow the rules they define for that status, if you don't want to then you don't put it in an ira
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    It always amazes me how quick people are to needlessly take away freedoms and fuck others over as a knee-jerk reaction. Putting restrictions on others should have careful thought and clear rationale.
    - tablespoon 5y ago
      > It always amazes me how quick people are to needlessly take away freedoms and fuck others over as a knee-jerk reaction. What freedoms? We're talking about tax advantaged investment accounts intended for a very specific public purpose, which are already restricted in many ways because of that. If you don't like restrictions, we could also solve this problem by abolishing IRAs then. Does that sound better to you?
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        You are proposing adding new restrictions on what people can do with their money. That is taking away their freedom. It is worse because you propose it as a solution to problem that doesn't even exist.

s1artibartfast 5y ago

Then you are limiting what people can do with their money 2 inflating stock prices of giant companies. What if I want to invest in a friend's business or buy a rental property. Are you saying it should be illegal for me to do that with my IRA?

tablespoon 5y ago
> Then you are limiting what people can do with their money 2 inflating stock prices of giant companies. So? It's what 99.999% of them do anyway. > What if I want to invest in a friend's business or buy a rental property. Are you saying it should be illegal for me to do that with my IRA? Yes.
- icedchai 5y ago
  No. IRA is funded with your money, so you should be able to do with it what you please. Next you'll be telling people they can only buy ETFs because stocks are too risky.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Better yet, they can only invest in blue-chip companies
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > No. IRA is funded with your money, so you should be able to do with it what you please. No. You can't even do what you please with money that's not in an IRA. And I mean, you already have to accept other restrictions to enjoy the tax advantages of an IRA, so what's so bad about adding another small one to solve this problem?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      All money is yours legally. The gov can tax it. Some things are are illegal to do with money and assets, but that doesn't mean that everything belongs to the government
    - icedchai 5y ago
      If you can legally invest in an asset in a taxable account, you should be able to invest in the same when its an IRA. Anyone can take advantage of this. Why do you want to restrict the way people invest their retirement funds?
  - snotrockets 5y ago
    The gains over doing the same at a taxable accounts are not your money, but public funds (the taxes not paid on those).
    - icedchai 5y ago
      With taxable accounts, it is legally your assets, gains or not. You pay taxes when you sell. Just like with a traditional, non-Roth IRA: you pay taxes when you withdraw. The IRS makes the rules.
      - snotrockets 5y ago
        The IRS doesn't make the rules, but enforces them. Unlike a somewhat popular opinion on this website, the law isn't an algorithm, but a codification of societal norms, like that we all share the expanses of living in civilized society. Yes, the TRANSFER of assets happens at time of sell or withdrawal, but the share taxes was painted such when we (the people, through legislation. Not the IRS!) decided that such share should be dedicated to society. This isn't about letter of the law, and never was: it's being an asshole.
        icedchai 5y ago
        That doesn't even make sense. The "share" is not known until the assets are sold or withdrawn, and also subject to change based on whatever tax law happens to be at the time. If I hold a stock long term, instead of day trading and accruing short term gains and associated taxes, am I being an asshole?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - kybernetikos 5y ago
    You can do what you please with your money and one of your choices is to put it in an ira or not. If you've decided to put it in a specially tax advantaged shelter defined by the government then you follow the rules they define for that status, if you don't want to then you don't put it in an ira
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  It always amazes me how quick people are to needlessly take away freedoms and fuck others over as a knee-jerk reaction. Putting restrictions on others should have careful thought and clear rationale.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > It always amazes me how quick people are to needlessly take away freedoms and fuck others over as a knee-jerk reaction. What freedoms? We're talking about tax advantaged investment accounts intended for a very specific public purpose, which are already restricted in many ways because of that. If you don't like restrictions, we could also solve this problem by abolishing IRAs then. Does that sound better to you?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      You are proposing adding new restrictions on what people can do with their money. That is taking away their freedom. It is worse because you propose it as a solution to problem that doesn't even exist.