5 ms·

Windows nowadays feels like a carefully crafted piece of software built by brilliant engineering and UX teams that, just before release, gets crapped all over b

by haolez 5y ago

Windows nowadays feels like a carefully crafted piece of software built by brilliant engineering and UX teams that, just before release, gets crapped all over by ads teams with annoyances and dark patterns. It must be frustrating to work in the former.

tehbeard 5y ago
Idk, it feels like the UX team has been hitting the whiskey, and the UI team slapped something together to squeeze out a pay rise. And then the ads team garnishes that with terribleness. And now, the teams team wants to make it worse.
- nszceta 5y ago
  Cue the Ballmer Peak XKCD with Windows 11 replacing Windows ME https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
- lupinglade 5y ago
  Yeah, I'd say this is what it feels like exactly.
- drzaiusapelord 5y ago
  >teams team It still a little mindblowing to me that teams steals focus like it does at startup. Windows boots relatively slowly that I could be in an Outlook window or typing in a URL or whatever after a fresh reboot and then teams just steals my mouse and keyboard. I've trained myself to not do anything until teams starts (and being an electron app, it certainly takes its time) because I'm so annoyed by focus stealing. On my home computer the xbox application does the same but at least it loads super fast. I am just bewildered that in 2021 that focus stealing like this is so common and accepted by anyone let alone Microsoft. It just feels like scammy 2000s adware.
  - vxNsr 5y ago
    There’s a setting to open teams in the background/minimized. I’ve never seen that not work. If you want the window to open at startup as a window… then it’s working as expected, it’s not stealing focus, you told it to open at startup and above everything, zoom, steam, origin, VPN, did the same thing when I allowed them to open at startup maximized. Not sure why you’re using the Xbox app, but I believe it also has the option to open in background.
    - drzaiusapelord 5y ago
      I don't see that as working as expected nor do I appreciate having to hunt and peck through settings to find this setting. The default should be for it to a polite application like any other. Awful defaults is exactly the dark pattern I'm complaining about. Just because Microsoft generously allows me to not have this awful behavior if I manually find this setting is not the big counter to my argument that you seem to think it is.
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    > until teams starts Curiously (and annoyingly) enough, when I type "update" in Windows search the top result is, invariably, "Microsoft Teams."
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Teams is terrible. Is like they let mentally disabled people design user interfaces.
chrisstanchak 5y ago
"Guys guys. Last second change from the top. We're gonna need to bundle Among Us. It needs to be front and center of our new start menu. We need it by EOD!"
benrbray 5y ago
How innovative, more P A D D I N G around everything! What's information density? I guess all the UI controls need to social distance? Big ScrollWheel™ did it again!
- grishka 5y ago
  You just don't understand, those touchscreens no one uses with any kind of seriousness are very very very important.
cblconfederate 5y ago
They had a good product with win7, they can afford to ruin it some more. If anything windows has stagnated for decade+ in terms of UI apart from cosmetic nonsense, and that's probably a good thing
captainmuon 5y ago
When people complain about ads in Windows I wonder if they are seeing a different version than I am. Maybe it is the difference between US and EU or Home and Pro versions? They do place links to third party games in the start menu upon installation. And they also inform about first party services where it makes sense (like OneDrive in Explorer, and Office365 when trying to edit a Word file). I wouldn't consider the first party offers an ad, if anything maybe an upsell, but that is just semantics. The thing is, I haven't payed for Windows in close to a decade (legally!). Even at work, we get all the Windows and Office licenses from Microsoft Gold (for having a couple employees take some IoT certification and slapping their sticker on promotional material). One way microsoft makes money is with these "Ads". If there is something that bothers me about Windows, it is the inconsistency. Visually, and quality wise. It seems MS is a totally heterogenous organisation with some brilliant teams that have a lot of freedom, and some less good teams that are heavily constrained. Some parts are really good (like the work on Windows Terminal, WSL, the new iteration of fluent design). But it seems nobody has the authority to push consistency across the system. There are longstanding bugs and sources of wierdness that are never addressed. Meanwhile new features are added at a breakneck pace (like the blurry weather applet). I can imagine some manager shouting "ship it now!" when I look at it. And some decisions seem to be business motivated, like trying to push Edge and trying to create restricted a "Chromebook"-like edition again and again, but they neither make sense business- nor technology-wise. It sometimes seems like nobody has the big picture over there.
- fortran77 5y ago
  I don't see ads either. I run Windows everywhere: Home, office, laptop. Are they complaining about a few demo games pre-installed? I don't get it.
- tyingq 5y ago
  Some examples: https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-windows-10-ads-taskbar-file-explorer https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-window... How to disable a lot of them: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-remove-advertising-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/how-remove-advertising-window...
- 5y ago
MegaDeKay 5y ago
Windows LTSC helps a lot in this respect.
- roody15 5y ago
  Priced way to high for what it is. Also hard for regular hobbyist and enthusiast to purchase. (IMO)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
roody15 5y ago
well said. It’s like the table of money people look at a great finished product and then decide how they can maximize profit by injecting crapware, breaking it apart into multiple versions with varying price points (LTSB, Education, Pro, Home, Ultimate.. on and on)
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I am reading this and it is only HN rules that make me give it a benefit of doubt. Windows simply cannot be carefully crafted at this stage for one simple reason. It is built on a foundation of compatibility ( which also happens to be its selling point ). The UX I can't really comment on. I don't like it, but I accept regular users may disagree.

by haolez 5y ago

tehbeard 5y ago

Idk, it feels like the UX team has been hitting the whiskey, and the UI team slapped something together to squeeze out a pay rise. And then the ads team garnishes that with terribleness. And now, the teams team wants to make it worse.

nszceta 5y ago
Cue the Ballmer Peak XKCD with Windows 11 replacing Windows ME https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
lupinglade 5y ago
Yeah, I'd say this is what it feels like exactly.
drzaiusapelord 5y ago
>teams team It still a little mindblowing to me that teams steals focus like it does at startup. Windows boots relatively slowly that I could be in an Outlook window or typing in a URL or whatever after a fresh reboot and then teams just steals my mouse and keyboard. I've trained myself to not do anything until teams starts (and being an electron app, it certainly takes its time) because I'm so annoyed by focus stealing. On my home computer the xbox application does the same but at least it loads super fast. I am just bewildered that in 2021 that focus stealing like this is so common and accepted by anyone let alone Microsoft. It just feels like scammy 2000s adware.
- vxNsr 5y ago
  There’s a setting to open teams in the background/minimized. I’ve never seen that not work. If you want the window to open at startup as a window… then it’s working as expected, it’s not stealing focus, you told it to open at startup and above everything, zoom, steam, origin, VPN, did the same thing when I allowed them to open at startup maximized. Not sure why you’re using the Xbox app, but I believe it also has the option to open in background.
  - drzaiusapelord 5y ago
    I don't see that as working as expected nor do I appreciate having to hunt and peck through settings to find this setting. The default should be for it to a polite application like any other. Awful defaults is exactly the dark pattern I'm complaining about. Just because Microsoft generously allows me to not have this awful behavior if I manually find this setting is not the big counter to my argument that you seem to think it is.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  > until teams starts Curiously (and annoyingly) enough, when I type "update" in Windows search the top result is, invariably, "Microsoft Teams."
- hulitu 5y ago
  Teams is terrible. Is like they let mentally disabled people design user interfaces.

chrisstanchak 5y ago

"Guys guys. Last second change from the top. We're gonna need to bundle Among Us. It needs to be front and center of our new start menu. We need it by EOD!"

benrbray 5y ago

How innovative, more P A D D I N G around everything! What's information density? I guess all the UI controls need to social distance? Big ScrollWheel™ did it again!

grishka 5y ago
You just don't understand, those touchscreens no one uses with any kind of seriousness are very very very important.

cblconfederate 5y ago

They had a good product with win7, they can afford to ruin it some more. If anything windows has stagnated for decade+ in terms of UI apart from cosmetic nonsense, and that's probably a good thing

captainmuon 5y ago

When people complain about ads in Windows I wonder if they are seeing a different version than I am. Maybe it is the difference between US and EU or Home and Pro versions? They do place links to third party games in the start menu upon installation. And they also inform about first party services where it makes sense (like OneDrive in Explorer, and Office365 when trying to edit a Word file). I wouldn't consider the first party offers an ad, if anything maybe an upsell, but that is just semantics. The thing is, I haven't payed for Windows in close to a decade (legally!). Even at work, we get all the Windows and Office licenses from Microsoft Gold (for having a couple employees take some IoT certification and slapping their sticker on promotional material). One way microsoft makes money is with these "Ads". If there is something that bothers me about Windows, it is the inconsistency. Visually, and quality wise. It seems MS is a totally heterogenous organisation with some brilliant teams that have a lot of freedom, and some less good teams that are heavily constrained. Some parts are really good (like the work on Windows Terminal, WSL, the new iteration of fluent design). But it seems nobody has the authority to push consistency across the system. There are longstanding bugs and sources of wierdness that are never addressed. Meanwhile new features are added at a breakneck pace (like the blurry weather applet). I can imagine some manager shouting "ship it now!" when I look at it. And some decisions seem to be business motivated, like trying to push Edge and trying to create restricted a "Chromebook"-like edition again and again, but they neither make sense business- nor technology-wise. It sometimes seems like nobody has the big picture over there.

fortran77 5y ago
I don't see ads either. I run Windows everywhere: Home, office, laptop. Are they complaining about a few demo games pre-installed? I don't get it.
tyingq 5y ago
Some examples: https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-windows-10-ads-taskbar-file-explorer https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-window... How to disable a lot of them: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-remove-advertising-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/how-remove-advertising-window...
5y ago

MegaDeKay 5y ago

Windows LTSC helps a lot in this respect.

roody15 5y ago
Priced way to high for what it is. Also hard for regular hobbyist and enthusiast to purchase. (IMO)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

roody15 5y ago

well said. It’s like the table of money people look at a great finished product and then decide how they can maximize profit by injecting crapware, breaking it apart into multiple versions with varying price points (LTSB, Education, Pro, Home, Ultimate.. on and on)

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

I am reading this and it is only HN rules that make me give it a benefit of doubt. Windows simply cannot be carefully crafted at this stage for one simple reason. It is built on a foundation of compatibility ( which also happens to be its selling point ). The UX I can't really comment on. I don't like it, but I accept regular users may disagree.