5 ms·

oh this makes more sense: JVM apps run in Windows with some simple JVM container. Intel Bridge Technology is only needed for the apps that have compiled native

oh this makes more sense: JVM apps run in Windows with some simple JVM container. Intel Bridge Technology is only needed for the apps that have compiled native code.

tadfisher 5y ago
Android apps don't ship with JVM bytecode, though; they are compiled to the DEX format[1], which is the format used by the Android Runtime (ART), which is generally why these Android-in-container projects ship the whole bionic-based userland and pipe I/O through a bridge service. [1] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format
naikrovek 5y ago
> some simple JVM container no, there's a new NT subsystem to support this: Windows Subsystem for Android, and as you could guess from the name, it is somewhat related to WSL. the NT kernel was always designed to accommodate multiple subsystems running at once. Until WSL, there was only ever the Windows subsystem itself. soon there will be a third subsystem one can install. this is neat, to me.
- jlawer 5y ago
  There was a posix subsystem as well in the early days, however it lacked functionality and was used as a “check that box” for procurement rather then functionality
  - glhaynes 5y ago
    Also OS/2 (1.x).
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    Windows is "POSIX compliant" still, whatever that is worth. Are you sure that was a subsystem?
    - jlawer 5y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem
- mook 5y ago
  Hmm, but WSL2 just runs a VM instead, right? Given that I'd have expected WSA to be a container on the WSL VM, running something similar to Anbox.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    WSL2 runs in a VM with host OS integration, and I assume this is how the subsystem functionality of the NT kernel is used in WSL2. WSL1 is the "Linux as a subsystem of Windows" thing I described. Note that WSL2 is not a complete upgrade from WSL1, and WSL2 does not render WSL1 obsolete. They each have strengths that the other does not.
- monocasa 5y ago
  WSL is very different than NT subsystems (it's based on drawbridge). And NT did support a fourth (or fifth depending on how you want to count it) POSIX subsystem for quite a while, but that's different than WSL. And interestingly enough, Android support was the original purpose of WSL. It was modified to run an Ubuntu user land on original release for some Microsoft product reason. It's nice to see it coming back in it's original form too.
  - tamlin 5y ago
    There was a Linux subsystem for NT around early 2000s in Microsoft Research. There is amazing depth inside parts of Microsoft. For example, a team built Xbox360-on-PC sometime around 2007-08. That was emulating the PowerPC and GPU on Intel PCs. This didn't ship for various reasons as a product, but it was in the draw when Xbox One came along and they wanted game compatibility between Xbox 360 and XBox One. WSLv1 was built on Drawbridge that originally came from MSR. I heard a rumor that WSL was spun out from a project using Drawbridge to run Android. Obviously a lot of work went into WSL subsequently, but the pieces to get started were in place.

oh this makes more sense: JVM apps run in Windows with some simple JVM container. Intel Bridge Technology is only needed for the apps that have compiled native code.

tadfisher 5y ago

Android apps don't ship with JVM bytecode, though; they are compiled to the DEX format[1], which is the format used by the Android Runtime (ART), which is generally why these Android-in-container projects ship the whole bionic-based userland and pipe I/O through a bridge service. [1] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format

naikrovek 5y ago

> some simple JVM container no, there's a new NT subsystem to support this: Windows Subsystem for Android, and as you could guess from the name, it is somewhat related to WSL. the NT kernel was always designed to accommodate multiple subsystems running at once. Until WSL, there was only ever the Windows subsystem itself. soon there will be a third subsystem one can install. this is neat, to me.

jlawer 5y ago
There was a posix subsystem as well in the early days, however it lacked functionality and was used as a “check that box” for procurement rather then functionality
- glhaynes 5y ago
  Also OS/2 (1.x).
- naikrovek 5y ago
  Windows is "POSIX compliant" still, whatever that is worth. Are you sure that was a subsystem?
  - jlawer 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_POSIX_subsystem
mook 5y ago
Hmm, but WSL2 just runs a VM instead, right? Given that I'd have expected WSA to be a container on the WSL VM, running something similar to Anbox.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  WSL2 runs in a VM with host OS integration, and I assume this is how the subsystem functionality of the NT kernel is used in WSL2. WSL1 is the "Linux as a subsystem of Windows" thing I described. Note that WSL2 is not a complete upgrade from WSL1, and WSL2 does not render WSL1 obsolete. They each have strengths that the other does not.
monocasa 5y ago
WSL is very different than NT subsystems (it's based on drawbridge). And NT did support a fourth (or fifth depending on how you want to count it) POSIX subsystem for quite a while, but that's different than WSL. And interestingly enough, Android support was the original purpose of WSL. It was modified to run an Ubuntu user land on original release for some Microsoft product reason. It's nice to see it coming back in it's original form too.
- tamlin 5y ago
  There was a Linux subsystem for NT around early 2000s in Microsoft Research. There is amazing depth inside parts of Microsoft. For example, a team built Xbox360-on-PC sometime around 2007-08. That was emulating the PowerPC and GPU on Intel PCs. This didn't ship for various reasons as a product, but it was in the draw when Xbox One came along and they wanted game compatibility between Xbox 360 and XBox One. WSLv1 was built on Drawbridge that originally came from MSR. I heard a rumor that WSL was spun out from a project using Drawbridge to run Android. Obviously a lot of work went into WSL subsequently, but the pieces to get started were in place.