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I mean.. The taskbar seems like a Dock now. The interface seems very Apple Finder-esque now. I feel like they're just aligning with macOS now. Not that I'm com

I mean.. The taskbar seems like a Dock now. The interface seems very Apple Finder-esque now. I feel like they're just aligning with macOS now. Not that I'm complaining, the video and the interface all are sexy.

yourabstraction 5y ago
Yeah, it looks like they finally just threw the towel in and admitted that macOS has had a superior design aesthetic, and started heading in the same direction.
- tehbeard 5y ago
  In what way is it superior? Shinier?
  - DocTomoe 5y ago
    As a long time Linux-only-user (since 1996...) who is now forced by management to work on a MacBook: macOS just feels snappy. Things are where I would expect them to be. Files in the finder are actually what I searched for, and finding stuff is fast. UI animations give a clear indication on what is happening. I still prefer i3 ... but I can understand why a nontechnical user might prefer a mac device to a windows(10) device. Someone at Apple clearly knows about UI/UX.
- masklinn 5y ago
  The good news is they’re doing that just as apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS designers in charge of macOS. The bad news is Apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS people in charge of macOS. The new safari looks insanely bad.
  - 72deluxe 5y ago
    I'm still on Mojave because of the UI changes in Big Sur.
- mmcdermott 5y ago
  Probably more a return to form than anything. I seem to recall reading a book about the early (v 1.0 - 3.11) history of Windows where a developer recounted Bill Gates looking at early builds and asking if they could make it look more like Mac. Wish I could remember the title because that's going to gnaw at me for the rest of the day.
- hulitu 5y ago
  MacOS has, MacOsX has not. It seems that SW got autistic those days. ( no offence for autistic people)
pier25 5y ago
I agree, but File Explorer seems to be the same ugly mess...
- another_kel 5y ago
  And still lack tabs!
- olyjohn 5y ago
  That's the thing with these Windows UI updates. It looks great until you fire up some application like Office and then it suddenly it's the same interface you were using before. Then you have this weird mix of aesthetics.
dunnevens 5y ago
Good news is you can still anchor the taskbar to the left. At least you can within the leaked ISO. Bad news is that the smallest taskbar size is bigger than the current smallest size.
- ehsankia 5y ago
  Is that true? From the official microsoft site [0], I see: > Taskbar functionality is changed including: Alignment to the bottom of the screen is the only location allowed. [0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica... EDIT: Sorry I misread, you meant the icons. But yeah unfortunately it sounds like you can't move the taskbar as a whole anymore. I always kept mine at the top.
  - LeonenTheDK 5y ago
    Well that does suck for me though, I've been using it on the left side of the screen for well over a decade now. Guess I'll have to get with the times (as arbitrary as they are). Although considering I've seen no one else mention this issue, I'm guessing I'm a huge outlier.
tyingq 5y ago
I'm not a fan. A centered dock does look pretty, but to me it's not as intuitive as a left-aligned screen. Especially since you would be navigating to the "Start" menu a lot. Getting my mouse bottom left is more natural than "some random offset of dead bottom center". I can't tell if the icons get larger as you hover. That sort of magnifies this problem, as the start button would shift left as other icons are highlighted.
- jjcm 5y ago
  Left aligned makes a ton of sense until you exceed a horizontal resolution of 2k or so. The web realized this ages ago - a left aligned page doesn't work at large screen sizes. With the web it isn't as critical (often times we have a browser window smaller than our full screen), but for a taskbar that spans the full horizontal resolution, left aligned doesn't make sense when you have a 5k ultrawide. Screen sizes will continue to slowly increase, centering the taskbar is futureproofing for that.
  - wayneftw 5y ago
    It doesn't matter what size the screen is when I want to reach the corners. I just slam my mouse to the lower left and I know exactly where it will be.
    - Silhouette 5y ago
      Why is this downvoted? This is exactly the usability argument for having a bottom-left aligned Start menu, and it's based on robust evidence about how easily users can select controls of different sizes and in different places with a pointing device. If you have such a large screen that you can't quickly move your pointer to anywhere on it, I suggest that you have a bigger problem with your system than where your Start menu appears.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        Right? It's literally Fitt's Law, one of the first things we figured out for sure in UX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
destructionator 5y ago
yeah im at the first screenshot and it just looks awful Have Microsoft forgotten the lessons they learned so hard since 1995? The start button being in the corner has real usability benefits. They ruined the taskbar a long time ago, the button grouping thing is absolutely horrible and can only be partially turned off... hopefully they at a minimum kept the full button option somewhere. And the centering... if new stuff is added and it recenters, it means things are moving all the time. eeek.
- DrBazza 5y ago
  The people 'reviewing' the leak last week mentioned that you can move the Start button back to the corner rather than having it centered.
- badsectoracula 5y ago
  Microsoft's usability dementia started with them removing the 3D relief from toolbar buttons in Windows 98 to look like plain icons and making menubar labels indistinguishable from toolbar buttons (except text instead of icons) just for the sake of looks, despite all these having different user interactions. Then again they were never completely consistent. For example in Win3.x design 3D elements were supposed to be for those that cause some command to be performed, yet the scrollbar visual design was the same as that of buttons.
jayd16 5y ago
I think it's probably closer to ChromeOS with the idea being centered is better for touch support.
- hulitu 5y ago
  There is no bloody touch on a desktop except on their braindead surface tablets. You can point your finger at the monitor but after some time, it hurts.
  - cma 5y ago
    In that case the windows key is faster anyway.
72deluxe 5y ago
XFCE, CDE, KDE and WindowMaker and AfterStep all had the same sort of dock look for many years. At least we can finally go from one machine to another without too much of a difference or having to learn much - particularly good for those who only use what they "know".

yourabstraction 5y ago

Yeah, it looks like they finally just threw the towel in and admitted that macOS has had a superior design aesthetic, and started heading in the same direction.

tehbeard 5y ago
In what way is it superior? Shinier?
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  As a long time Linux-only-user (since 1996...) who is now forced by management to work on a MacBook: macOS just feels snappy. Things are where I would expect them to be. Files in the finder are actually what I searched for, and finding stuff is fast. UI animations give a clear indication on what is happening. I still prefer i3 ... but I can understand why a nontechnical user might prefer a mac device to a windows(10) device. Someone at Apple clearly knows about UI/UX.
masklinn 5y ago
The good news is they’re doing that just as apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS designers in charge of macOS. The bad news is Apple is fucking it all up, having apparently put iOS people in charge of macOS. The new safari looks insanely bad.
- 72deluxe 5y ago
  I'm still on Mojave because of the UI changes in Big Sur.
mmcdermott 5y ago
Probably more a return to form than anything. I seem to recall reading a book about the early (v 1.0 - 3.11) history of Windows where a developer recounted Bill Gates looking at early builds and asking if they could make it look more like Mac. Wish I could remember the title because that's going to gnaw at me for the rest of the day.
hulitu 5y ago
MacOS has, MacOsX has not. It seems that SW got autistic those days. ( no offence for autistic people)

pier25 5y ago

I agree, but File Explorer seems to be the same ugly mess...

another_kel 5y ago
And still lack tabs!
olyjohn 5y ago
That's the thing with these Windows UI updates. It looks great until you fire up some application like Office and then it suddenly it's the same interface you were using before. Then you have this weird mix of aesthetics.

dunnevens 5y ago

Good news is you can still anchor the taskbar to the left. At least you can within the leaked ISO. Bad news is that the smallest taskbar size is bigger than the current smallest size.

ehsankia 5y ago
Is that true? From the official microsoft site [0], I see: > Taskbar functionality is changed including: Alignment to the bottom of the screen is the only location allowed. [0] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifica... EDIT: Sorry I misread, you meant the icons. But yeah unfortunately it sounds like you can't move the taskbar as a whole anymore. I always kept mine at the top.
- LeonenTheDK 5y ago
  Well that does suck for me though, I've been using it on the left side of the screen for well over a decade now. Guess I'll have to get with the times (as arbitrary as they are). Although considering I've seen no one else mention this issue, I'm guessing I'm a huge outlier.

tyingq 5y ago

I'm not a fan. A centered dock does look pretty, but to me it's not as intuitive as a left-aligned screen. Especially since you would be navigating to the "Start" menu a lot. Getting my mouse bottom left is more natural than "some random offset of dead bottom center". I can't tell if the icons get larger as you hover. That sort of magnifies this problem, as the start button would shift left as other icons are highlighted.

jjcm 5y ago
Left aligned makes a ton of sense until you exceed a horizontal resolution of 2k or so. The web realized this ages ago - a left aligned page doesn't work at large screen sizes. With the web it isn't as critical (often times we have a browser window smaller than our full screen), but for a taskbar that spans the full horizontal resolution, left aligned doesn't make sense when you have a 5k ultrawide. Screen sizes will continue to slowly increase, centering the taskbar is futureproofing for that.
- wayneftw 5y ago
  It doesn't matter what size the screen is when I want to reach the corners. I just slam my mouse to the lower left and I know exactly where it will be.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    Why is this downvoted? This is exactly the usability argument for having a bottom-left aligned Start menu, and it's based on robust evidence about how easily users can select controls of different sizes and in different places with a pointing device. If you have such a large screen that you can't quickly move your pointer to anywhere on it, I suggest that you have a bigger problem with your system than where your Start menu appears.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Right? It's literally Fitt's Law, one of the first things we figured out for sure in UX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

destructionator 5y ago

yeah im at the first screenshot and it just looks awful Have Microsoft forgotten the lessons they learned so hard since 1995? The start button being in the corner has real usability benefits. They ruined the taskbar a long time ago, the button grouping thing is absolutely horrible and can only be partially turned off... hopefully they at a minimum kept the full button option somewhere. And the centering... if new stuff is added and it recenters, it means things are moving all the time. eeek.

DrBazza 5y ago
The people 'reviewing' the leak last week mentioned that you can move the Start button back to the corner rather than having it centered.
badsectoracula 5y ago
Microsoft's usability dementia started with them removing the 3D relief from toolbar buttons in Windows 98 to look like plain icons and making menubar labels indistinguishable from toolbar buttons (except text instead of icons) just for the sake of looks, despite all these having different user interactions. Then again they were never completely consistent. For example in Win3.x design 3D elements were supposed to be for those that cause some command to be performed, yet the scrollbar visual design was the same as that of buttons.

jayd16 5y ago

I think it's probably closer to ChromeOS with the idea being centered is better for touch support.

hulitu 5y ago
There is no bloody touch on a desktop except on their braindead surface tablets. You can point your finger at the monitor but after some time, it hurts.
- cma 5y ago
  In that case the windows key is faster anyway.

72deluxe 5y ago

XFCE, CDE, KDE and WindowMaker and AfterStep all had the same sort of dock look for many years. At least we can finally go from one machine to another without too much of a difference or having to learn much - particularly good for those who only use what they "know".