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The article says this relies on "Intel Bridge Technology". Anyone know more about it? All I could find easily was https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/produc

The article says this relies on "Intel Bridge Technology". Anyone know more about it? All I could find easily was https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/discrete-gpus/server-graphics-solution-brief.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/discre... Want to highlight one paragraph from that description: "Intel Bridge Technology is run-time post compiler that can be integrated into Android-in-Container to enable certain Android apps – those not written in Java or compiled to run natively on Intel-based devices - to run on those devices." How many Android apps out there are not written in Java? I'm guessing Kotlin isn't supported either. For that matter how many apps are targeting Android devices with Intel CPUs anymore? I was expecting a full VM / emulator, but this doesn't sound like that.

notriddle 5y ago
I would expect Android apps that are written in Java would also run, but they wouldn't use "Intel Bridge" to do it.
015a 5y ago
I think that statement from Intel has to be taken in context; that technology is for enabling Android applications which are not otherwise executable on Intel CPUs to successfully run on Intel devices. Its not an assertion that Java-based Android apps won't be available in the app store; its just saying "these apps which are generally really hard to get running on x86, we've got those covered too".
- johnnyapol 5y ago
  This was my interpretation of the statement too. Specifically what comes to mind is apps that depend on native/shared libraries that only have an ARM build and not a x86 build shipped.
tyleo 5y ago
I'm hoping to get an AMD PC sometime in the future. I hope this works on more than just Intel processors.
- anfilt 5y ago
  If microsoft is working on it I bet they would want it to work on AMD CPUs as well.
  - zeusk 5y ago
    Yes it works on any x86 cpu with nested virtualization and VT-d (anything post sandybridge?).
lorlou 5y ago
Java performance is so terrible that most of the code of the majority of apps is written in native code. Java is only used for the UI of those apps.
sedatk 5y ago
I feel like that’s Rosetta 2 for PCs.
pcapca 5y ago
My guess is that apps written in java/kotlin are easy to run in a x86 compatible android runtime. The difficulty is for native code, the arm libraries embedded in many apps. Actually most Android app depends on native libs. For image processing for example. Nearly all games are using native arm binaries. The sentence you quoted is probably related to native code only, which is the difficult part. It looks like they have some magic tricks to make them work on x86 architecture with having to recompile the libs. Intel used the same tricks in their x86 android devices a few years ago, you could run arm native code on their x86 android versions transparently.
- NelsonMinar 5y ago
  oh this makes more sense: JVM apps run in Windows with some simple JVM container. Intel Bridge Technology is only needed for the apps that have compiled native code.
  - tadfisher 5y ago
    Android apps don't ship with JVM bytecode, though; they are compiled to the DEX format[1], which is the format used by the Android Runtime (ART), which is generally why these Android-in-container projects ship the whole bionic-based userland and pipe I/O through a bridge service. [1] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    > some simple JVM container no, there's a new NT subsystem to support this: Windows Subsystem for Android, and as you could guess from the name, it is somewhat related to WSL. the NT kernel was always designed to accommodate multiple subsystems running at once. Until WSL, there was only ever the Windows subsystem itself. soon there will be a third subsystem one can install. this is neat, to me.
    - jlawer 5y ago
      There was a posix subsystem as well in the early days, however it lacked functionality and was used as a “check that box” for procurement rather then functionality
embeddTrway690 5y ago
> How many Android apps out there are not written in Java? Lot of apps use natively compiled libraries through NDK.
sudosensei 5y ago
I'm guessing Intel Bridge Technology is related to what they used to call Houdini. Houdini is an ARM binary translator which translates ARM binary code into x86. I believe Android-x86 (https://www.android-x86.org https://www.android-x86.org) makes use of it.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  Based on the trends I'm seeing, they better be working on the opposite direction ;)
  - axaxs 5y ago
    Quite the contrary. Why would Intel want x86 on ARM? That would make migration even easier.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
anfilt 5y ago
There is the android NDK (Native Development Kit) it's mainly games or CPU intensive apps trying to get as much performance or software that was ported and whose code base was primarily a compiled language like C.
an_opabinia 5y ago
There are few categories of apps this targets. “Clubhouse for Android” category: avant- grade apps that launch first on Android or define android platform. Nonexistent. “Median phone user ecosystem:” The TikTok Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, Snapchat, China app ecosystem and India app ecosystem. The experience of all these is bad on Windows browsers or unavailable. ”Games”: hard to say, because Windows is a better platform for games than Android by 10x. This doesn’t sound very strategy driven. If it’s UX driven, hard to see how it competes with the median user getting an iPhone. This is the case with the consumer in China, where despite 30 Android app stores and lots of innovation / competition the iPhone is still preferred by those who can afford it.
- pimterry 5y ago
  > ”Games”: hard to say, because Windows is a better platform for games than Android by 10x. Note that there are quite a few commercial "Android on PC" emulators already, e.g. https://www.memuplay.com/ https://www.memuplay.com/, https://www.bluestacks.com/ https://www.bluestacks.com/ and https://www.bignox.com/ https://www.bignox.com/. In terms of scale, Bluestacks claim they have 50 million monthly active users which makes them pretty substantial! From https://www.bluestacks.com/promote-your-game.html https://www.bluestacks.com/promote-your-game.html. Overall mobile gaming revenue is now larger than console gaming and more than 2x PC gaming, and rapidly growing (https://scaletech.medium.com/mobile-gaming-statistics-trends-during-2020-f7b814d6dbe5 https://scaletech.medium.com/mobile-gaming-statistics-trends...). Android gaming is a much bigger market than you'd imagine, especially for the younger generation. > hard to see how it competes with the median user getting an iPhone > This is the case with the consumer in China, where ... the iPhone is still preferred by those who can afford it I think you're seriously overestimating how popular iPhones are, even to users who can afford them. Especially if you're looking at Windows users, Android is hugely dominant outside the US. In China for example, iOS market share is actually constant around 20% or maybe slightly declining over the last decade (https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held...) despite the huge increase in average purchasing power, which makes it seem unlikely that the only thing holding people in China back from them is the price. Globally, Android is at 70% of devices (https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide) even in relatively wealth areas like the EU. iOS is primarily popular in the USA (where it's about 60% of devices). I suspect iOS and Mac usage are fairly closely correlated, so the Android percentage goes up substantially if you're only looking at Windows users. I think Android integration actually makes a lot of sense for Microsoft!
fulafel 5y ago
Probably the same binary translation tech that was used in Intel based android phones back when Intel made a push for that.
polar 5y ago
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-tech-unleashes-windows-experience.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-...
bitwize 5y ago
> How many Android apps out there are not written in Java? A fair few games are developed in C++ and run through the Android native interface. Unity games, often written in C#, run on Unity's native runtime which has been ported to Android. Intel Bridge Technology is, presumably, a way to get ARM binaries running on x86 by AOT compiling them. It is not necessary for Java or Kotlin apps or native x86 apps, so those will run without IBT.
- rpeden 5y ago
  Also apps that use React Native, as the RN runtime is written in C++ and uses the NDK on Android.
- tamlin 5y ago
  Yes. All apps in Android are spawned from the Zygote, but once started an app is free to call as much native code as it likes. https://medium.com/@voodoomio/what-the-zygote-76f852d887d9 https://medium.com/@voodoomio/what-the-zygote-76f852d887d9
chx 5y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549303/windows-11-intel-bridge-android-apps-amd-arm-processors https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549303/windows-11-intel... reports it will work on AMD CPUs too. > According to Intel, Bridge itself is a run-time post compiler that translates applications that are compiled for non-x86 platforms (in this case, Android applications) into x86 instructions (which can run on Windows 11 with Intel or AMD CPUs).
Marsymars 5y ago
> For that matter how many apps are targeting Android devices with Intel CPUs anymore? Pretty much none, but I expect most devs are developing/testing on x86 Android emulators, since they're developing on x86 systems.
strulovich 5y ago
Apps might be written mostly in Java but have one native code library for encoding, audio, etc. That’s enough to break the app without some bridging such as this.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
>those not written in Java or compiled to run natively on Intel-based devices - to run on those devices I think they mean non-x86 binaries e.g. ARM, Would still be interesting to see how the translation happens it's not like MS/Intel has silicon level advantage like Rosetta/M1 but for translating other way around. >I was expecting a full VM / emulator, but this doesn't sound like that. Even Google did not consider VM/emulator, The went for Android Runtime for Chrome (ARC) and then after learning that it doesn't support all features they switched to containers.

notriddle 5y ago

I would expect Android apps that are written in Java would also run, but they wouldn't use "Intel Bridge" to do it.

015a 5y ago

I think that statement from Intel has to be taken in context; that technology is for enabling Android applications which are not otherwise executable on Intel CPUs to successfully run on Intel devices. Its not an assertion that Java-based Android apps won't be available in the app store; its just saying "these apps which are generally really hard to get running on x86, we've got those covered too".

johnnyapol 5y ago
This was my interpretation of the statement too. Specifically what comes to mind is apps that depend on native/shared libraries that only have an ARM build and not a x86 build shipped.

tyleo 5y ago

I'm hoping to get an AMD PC sometime in the future. I hope this works on more than just Intel processors.

anfilt 5y ago
If microsoft is working on it I bet they would want it to work on AMD CPUs as well.
- zeusk 5y ago
  Yes it works on any x86 cpu with nested virtualization and VT-d (anything post sandybridge?).

lorlou 5y ago

Java performance is so terrible that most of the code of the majority of apps is written in native code. Java is only used for the UI of those apps.

sedatk 5y ago

I feel like that’s Rosetta 2 for PCs.

pcapca 5y ago

My guess is that apps written in java/kotlin are easy to run in a x86 compatible android runtime. The difficulty is for native code, the arm libraries embedded in many apps. Actually most Android app depends on native libs. For image processing for example. Nearly all games are using native arm binaries. The sentence you quoted is probably related to native code only, which is the difficult part. It looks like they have some magic tricks to make them work on x86 architecture with having to recompile the libs. Intel used the same tricks in their x86 android devices a few years ago, you could run arm native code on their x86 android versions transparently.

NelsonMinar 5y ago
oh this makes more sense: JVM apps run in Windows with some simple JVM container. Intel Bridge Technology is only needed for the apps that have compiled native code.
- tadfisher 5y ago
  Android apps don't ship with JVM bytecode, though; they are compiled to the DEX format[1], which is the format used by the Android Runtime (ART), which is generally why these Android-in-container projects ship the whole bionic-based userland and pipe I/O through a bridge service. [1] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format https://source.android.com/devices/tech/dalvik/dex-format
- naikrovek 5y ago
  > some simple JVM container no, there's a new NT subsystem to support this: Windows Subsystem for Android, and as you could guess from the name, it is somewhat related to WSL. the NT kernel was always designed to accommodate multiple subsystems running at once. Until WSL, there was only ever the Windows subsystem itself. soon there will be a third subsystem one can install. this is neat, to me.
  - jlawer 5y ago
    There was a posix subsystem as well in the early days, however it lacked functionality and was used as a “check that box” for procurement rather then functionality

embeddTrway690 5y ago

> How many Android apps out there are not written in Java? Lot of apps use natively compiled libraries through NDK.

sudosensei 5y ago

I'm guessing Intel Bridge Technology is related to what they used to call Houdini. Houdini is an ARM binary translator which translates ARM binary code into x86. I believe Android-x86 (https://www.android-x86.org https://www.android-x86.org) makes use of it.

pmarreck 5y ago
Based on the trends I'm seeing, they better be working on the opposite direction ;)
- axaxs 5y ago
  Quite the contrary. Why would Intel want x86 on ARM? That would make migration even easier.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

anfilt 5y ago

There is the android NDK (Native Development Kit) it's mainly games or CPU intensive apps trying to get as much performance or software that was ported and whose code base was primarily a compiled language like C.

an_opabinia 5y ago

There are few categories of apps this targets. “Clubhouse for Android” category: avant- grade apps that launch first on Android or define android platform. Nonexistent. “Median phone user ecosystem:” The TikTok Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, YouTube, Snapchat, China app ecosystem and India app ecosystem. The experience of all these is bad on Windows browsers or unavailable. ”Games”: hard to say, because Windows is a better platform for games than Android by 10x. This doesn’t sound very strategy driven. If it’s UX driven, hard to see how it competes with the median user getting an iPhone. This is the case with the consumer in China, where despite 30 Android app stores and lots of innovation / competition the iPhone is still preferred by those who can afford it.

pimterry 5y ago
> ”Games”: hard to say, because Windows is a better platform for games than Android by 10x. Note that there are quite a few commercial "Android on PC" emulators already, e.g. https://www.memuplay.com/ https://www.memuplay.com/, https://www.bluestacks.com/ https://www.bluestacks.com/ and https://www.bignox.com/ https://www.bignox.com/. In terms of scale, Bluestacks claim they have 50 million monthly active users which makes them pretty substantial! From https://www.bluestacks.com/promote-your-game.html https://www.bluestacks.com/promote-your-game.html. Overall mobile gaming revenue is now larger than console gaming and more than 2x PC gaming, and rapidly growing (https://scaletech.medium.com/mobile-gaming-statistics-trends-during-2020-f7b814d6dbe5 https://scaletech.medium.com/mobile-gaming-statistics-trends...). Android gaming is a much bigger market than you'd imagine, especially for the younger generation. > hard to see how it competes with the median user getting an iPhone > This is the case with the consumer in China, where ... the iPhone is still preferred by those who can afford it I think you're seriously overestimating how popular iPhones are, even to users who can afford them. Especially if you're looking at Windows users, Android is hugely dominant outside the US. In China for example, iOS market share is actually constant around 20% or maybe slightly declining over the last decade (https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-in-china/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/262176/market-share-held...) despite the huge increase in average purchasing power, which makes it seem unlikely that the only thing holding people in China back from them is the price. Globally, Android is at 70% of devices (https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide) even in relatively wealth areas like the EU. iOS is primarily popular in the USA (where it's about 60% of devices). I suspect iOS and Mac usage are fairly closely correlated, so the Android percentage goes up substantially if you're only looking at Windows users. I think Android integration actually makes a lot of sense for Microsoft!

fulafel 5y ago

Probably the same binary translation tech that was used in Intel based android phones back when Intel made a push for that.

polar 5y ago

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-tech-unleashes-windows-experience.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-...

bitwize 5y ago

> How many Android apps out there are not written in Java? A fair few games are developed in C++ and run through the Android native interface. Unity games, often written in C#, run on Unity's native runtime which has been ported to Android. Intel Bridge Technology is, presumably, a way to get ARM binaries running on x86 by AOT compiling them. It is not necessary for Java or Kotlin apps or native x86 apps, so those will run without IBT.

rpeden 5y ago
Also apps that use React Native, as the RN runtime is written in C++ and uses the NDK on Android.
tamlin 5y ago
Yes. All apps in Android are spawned from the Zygote, but once started an app is free to call as much native code as it likes. https://medium.com/@voodoomio/what-the-zygote-76f852d887d9 https://medium.com/@voodoomio/what-the-zygote-76f852d887d9

chx 5y ago

https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549303/windows-11-intel-bridge-android-apps-amd-arm-processors https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22549303/windows-11-intel... reports it will work on AMD CPUs too. > According to Intel, Bridge itself is a run-time post compiler that translates applications that are compiled for non-x86 platforms (in this case, Android applications) into x86 instructions (which can run on Windows 11 with Intel or AMD CPUs).

Marsymars 5y ago

> For that matter how many apps are targeting Android devices with Intel CPUs anymore? Pretty much none, but I expect most devs are developing/testing on x86 Android emulators, since they're developing on x86 systems.

strulovich 5y ago

Apps might be written mostly in Java but have one native code library for encoding, audio, etc. That’s enough to break the app without some bridging such as this.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

>those not written in Java or compiled to run natively on Intel-based devices - to run on those devices I think they mean non-x86 binaries e.g. ARM, Would still be interesting to see how the translation happens it's not like MS/Intel has silicon level advantage like Rosetta/M1 but for translating other way around. >I was expecting a full VM / emulator, but this doesn't sound like that. Even Google did not consider VM/emulator, The went for Android Runtime for Chrome (ARC) and then after learning that it doesn't support all features they switched to containers.