4 ms·

I wish MS stopped doing redesign of their interfaces every couple of years and just fixed the broken stuff the introduced somewhere along the way. - Settings /

I wish MS stopped doing redesign of their interfaces every couple of years and just fixed the broken stuff the introduced somewhere along the way. - Settings / control panel inconsistency and the other dozen places you can change configs for a single thing - Telemetry, ads and system crap - Package management and sandboxing And the list goes on.

phendrenad2 5y ago
Most of those are actually features. 1. Old control panels: Drivers may overlay or modify the window, so you can't really change them (don't forget: Windows supports many obscure devices like DAWs and heavy machinery, many things Linux users have never even considered connecting to a PC, and all of those have custom drivers from the device manufacturer that Microsoft doesn't control) 2. Telemetry, ads: Yes, this is a serious "bug" that Microsoft needs to fix, how do they keep accidentally adding fully-featured invasive telemetry and ad platforms into their OS? I guess that's what copying code from StackOverflow gets you! 3. Package management: NuGet? 4. Sandboxing: All modern OSs support lots of sandboxing options, not sure what you mean by this
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  > 3. Package management: NuGet? WinGet is their answer to this one: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-package-manager-1-0/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-package-m... It's not proper package management, but it's a start.
  - stinos 5y ago
    Powershell + ChocolateyGet (+ DSC if you want) does a pretty good job already. Apart from specialized software it's been years I had to install via tedious hunt for link + download + execute + go through wizards or similar. That being said, the meat of it is 3rd party so not having package management builtin is a valid complaint. Then again, if you think about what that would take: non-trivial.
- infogulch 5y ago
  Windows Sandbox is a thing as of this year: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-sandbox/windows-sandbox-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... Ephemeral, clean, windows instance on demand enabled by hypervisor tech. Only on Pro though. :-/
- Darvokis 5y ago
  > 1. Old control panels: Drivers may overlay or modify the window, so you can't really change them (don't forget: Windows supports many obscure devices like DAWs and heavy machinery, many things Linux users have never even considered connecting to a PC, and all of those have custom drivers from the device manufacturer that Microsoft doesn't control) The bigger issue is that a fuckload of native Windows settings can only be changed through the old Control Panel dialogs. I hate the new Settings app, but they need to make up their minds about what they want to do instead of arbitrarily splitting everything up between the new shitty hotness and the old dialogs.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    they're migrating things to Settings over time. do people not know this?
    - wingworks 5y ago
      no, I didn't. I just assumed they were slow to do the migration.
- DoctorDabadedoo 5y ago
  I meant broken more in the sense of "anti-pattern" practices. It's been a while I used Windows to develop anything, so I might be outdated on points 3 and 4. I understand the driver conundrum, from a user perspective, though, it's unbelievable how confusing and scattered Windows settings are by default (settings app / control panel / registry / AppData) and doesn't seem to exist a firm curatorship of that. On the telemetry, it's baffling that it may happen even on a paid license and we just put up with it.
- noobermin 5y ago
  1 is widely broken then by Win11 not supporting 32 bit machines anymore.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    uhh... 64-bit hardware can run 32-bit software just fine. that old software will run fine and so will any connected hardware.
    - noobermin 5y ago
      Imagine you have a 32 bit machine that drives something else with a controller board soldered on to the motherboard. Will it be able to run windows 11?
      - naikrovek 5y ago
        never have I seen anything like that that wasn't an appliance. as in vendor-managed. so, even if you COULD upgrade to Windows 11 on something, don't, because you'll break it. I can't even think of a good reason to consider it. if it needs to be on the network, isolate it, and let it do its job. it doesn't need to be fiddled with. I'd also be having a long conversation with the vendor about using standard expansion interfaces and why soldering to the motherboard is a good way to end my relationship with them as a customer.
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    It's possible that having invested effort into integrating with these old control panels, the hardware manufacturer wants to keep reusing that code, and is willing up recompile for 64-bit to do so, rather than throw it all away and start over.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Most of those are actually features. 1. Old control panels: Drivers may overlay or modify the window, so you can't really change them (don't forget: Windows supports many obscure devices like DAWs and heavy machinery, many things Linux users have never even considered connecting to a PC, and all of those have custom drivers from the device manufacturer that Microsoft doesn't control) 2. Telemetry, ads: Yes, this is a serious "bug" that Microsoft needs to fix, how do they keep accidentally adding fully-featured invasive telemetry and ad platforms into their OS? I guess that's what copying code from StackOverflow gets you! 3. Package management: NuGet? 4. Sandboxing: All modern OSs support lots of sandboxing options, not sure what you mean by this

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
> 3. Package management: NuGet? WinGet is their answer to this one: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-package-manager-1-0/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-package-m... It's not proper package management, but it's a start.
- stinos 5y ago
  Powershell + ChocolateyGet (+ DSC if you want) does a pretty good job already. Apart from specialized software it's been years I had to install via tedious hunt for link + download + execute + go through wizards or similar. That being said, the meat of it is 3rd party so not having package management builtin is a valid complaint. Then again, if you think about what that would take: non-trivial.
infogulch 5y ago
Windows Sandbox is a thing as of this year: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-sandbox/windows-sandbox-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-pro... Ephemeral, clean, windows instance on demand enabled by hypervisor tech. Only on Pro though. :-/
Darvokis 5y ago
> 1. Old control panels: Drivers may overlay or modify the window, so you can't really change them (don't forget: Windows supports many obscure devices like DAWs and heavy machinery, many things Linux users have never even considered connecting to a PC, and all of those have custom drivers from the device manufacturer that Microsoft doesn't control) The bigger issue is that a fuckload of native Windows settings can only be changed through the old Control Panel dialogs. I hate the new Settings app, but they need to make up their minds about what they want to do instead of arbitrarily splitting everything up between the new shitty hotness and the old dialogs.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  they're migrating things to Settings over time. do people not know this?
  - wingworks 5y ago
    no, I didn't. I just assumed they were slow to do the migration.
DoctorDabadedoo 5y ago
I meant broken more in the sense of "anti-pattern" practices. It's been a while I used Windows to develop anything, so I might be outdated on points 3 and 4. I understand the driver conundrum, from a user perspective, though, it's unbelievable how confusing and scattered Windows settings are by default (settings app / control panel / registry / AppData) and doesn't seem to exist a firm curatorship of that. On the telemetry, it's baffling that it may happen even on a paid license and we just put up with it.
noobermin 5y ago
1 is widely broken then by Win11 not supporting 32 bit machines anymore.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  uhh... 64-bit hardware can run 32-bit software just fine. that old software will run fine and so will any connected hardware.
  - noobermin 5y ago
    Imagine you have a 32 bit machine that drives something else with a controller board soldered on to the motherboard. Will it be able to run windows 11?
    - naikrovek 5y ago
      never have I seen anything like that that wasn't an appliance. as in vendor-managed. so, even if you COULD upgrade to Windows 11 on something, don't, because you'll break it. I can't even think of a good reason to consider it. if it needs to be on the network, isolate it, and let it do its job. it doesn't need to be fiddled with. I'd also be having a long conversation with the vendor about using standard expansion interfaces and why soldering to the motherboard is a good way to end my relationship with them as a customer.
- phendrenad2 5y ago
  It's possible that having invested effort into integrating with these old control panels, the hardware manufacturer wants to keep reusing that code, and is willing up recompile for 64-bit to do so, rather than throw it all away and start over.