4 ms·

I'm a 6th generation Canadian on my father's side, my mother immigrated from Scotland. I'm about as colonialist as they come. I agree with everything you said.

by neom 5y ago

I'm a 6th generation Canadian on my father's side, my mother immigrated from Scotland. I'm about as colonialist as they come. I agree with everything you said. I just wanted to add one thing... I don't hold my views out of some misplaced or misguided post-colonial white guilt. I hold my views because of the reality of the situation. I cannot stand the "I will not pay for what happened generations before me" stance, I just cannot tolerate it. Even if one was to feel that, it so illogical with regards to the reality on the floor in Canada that I just cannot entertain it. If we do not do the best we can to back ourselves out of forced entry into an existing "Canadian" society, and then try to reintegrate with the guidance and permission of the natives, the future of Canada, in my opinion, is not at all bright. I realize some reading this may find my perspective extreme, nevertheless, I hold this belief deeply.

hluska 5y ago
I don't think it's extreme at all. Honestly, I'm touched by your words - you're 100% correct, I love your perspective and you are an absolutely wonderful person. This conversation has been an absolute honour. My Dad was in the RCMP. I was born on reserve and spent a large part of my youth on and around reserve. My Dad did some bad things and his uniform is certainly not absolved of guilt. A lot of my privilege came because of his job. It's quite sad to know how much I've benefited from white privilege and this entire awful system. I will happily pay for what happened. My privilege is as obvious as oxygen and I have gained tremendous advantages as the result of an awful system. I will happily pay, never stop paying and advocate until I'm blue in the face. Worst case scenario, we might change some minds. Best case scenario, we might change some worlds. Thank you friend - you're a wonderful person and I genuinely appreciate this support and fellowship. I just saw a press conference where they announced 751 possible graves in Cowessess. That's 751 missing Kookums and Mooshums...:( I really needed to read your words.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > My Dad was in the RCMP. I was born on reserve and spent a large part of my youth on and around reserve. My Dad did some bad things and his uniform is certainly not absolved of guilt. A lot of my privilege came because of his job. It's quite sad to know how much I've benefited from white privilege and this entire awful system. > I will happily pay for what happened. My privilege is as obvious as oxygen and I have gained tremendous advantages as the result of an awful system. I will happily pay, never stop paying and advocate until I'm blue in the face. Worst case scenario, we might change some minds. Best case scenario, we might change some worlds. Are you willing to give-up your father's inheritance?
  - hluska 5y ago
    Sure am.
requin246 5y ago
The issue with assigning guilt from the actions of ancestors is that not everyone is guilty. I’m first generation Canadian. Is it fair that I should pay for the sins of your great grandfathers when mine weren’t even in the country? Canada accepts 300k immigrants per year. Since the closure of the residential schools, (very roughly speaking) 9m people have entered the country so it’s not a small number we’re talking about here. There’s also the added issue that not everyone supported the residential schools. What if my ancestors protested the system? Should I still pay reparations? I agree the quality of life on the reserves is a real problem that needs to be fixed but pushing the blame on the children of the settlers (or not even their children!) is not a good solution.
- neom 5y ago
  Personally I think it's rather naive to immigrate to a country and then not to expect to inherit what comes with that, both the good and the bad. I think everyone who claims themselves as a Canadian hold this responsibility equally, I don't really care what generation Canadian you are or where you immigrated from, you don't get to pick and choose your Canadianness, we're all in this together. Isn't that part of the beauty of Canada? To embrace each other, tackle hard problems, and move our society forward?
  - jankyxenon 5y ago
    If you pull the thread all the way back - if it’s morally right to pay reparations, wouldn’t it also be morally correct in the same vein to give the land back? How do you actually pay reparations for taking someone’s land?
    - neom 5y ago
      If you pull the thread all the way back - if it’s morally right to pay reparations, it would also be morally correct in the same vein, to give the land back. That is correct. If they wanted the land back, and I had to move, I wouldn't be opposed to that, and I'd imagine my opinion is more common than one might expect. That said, I'm not sure how useful the point is. I've very rarely heard a native person say they would like that. I have heard that proposed, usually drunken and angry over beer. When I was a kid my dad had the Chief of Couchiching First Nation over for dinner. In my 17 year old wisdom, I eagerly explained how sad it is that natives don't want to go live in Toronto. He said, natives would love to be in Toronto, if Toronto was a little more like a reserve. I think they have unfortunately long accepted they've been colonized, the treaties were not honored, and their culture was destroyed. Meaningful reparation at this point is unlikely to be about land or money, it's about Canada accepting it cannot be Canada without real change to re-incorporate the culturual growth that was strangled.

by neom 5y ago

hluska 5y ago

I don't think it's extreme at all. Honestly, I'm touched by your words - you're 100% correct, I love your perspective and you are an absolutely wonderful person. This conversation has been an absolute honour. My Dad was in the RCMP. I was born on reserve and spent a large part of my youth on and around reserve. My Dad did some bad things and his uniform is certainly not absolved of guilt. A lot of my privilege came because of his job. It's quite sad to know how much I've benefited from white privilege and this entire awful system. I will happily pay for what happened. My privilege is as obvious as oxygen and I have gained tremendous advantages as the result of an awful system. I will happily pay, never stop paying and advocate until I'm blue in the face. Worst case scenario, we might change some minds. Best case scenario, we might change some worlds. Thank you friend - you're a wonderful person and I genuinely appreciate this support and fellowship. I just saw a press conference where they announced 751 possible graves in Cowessess. That's 751 missing Kookums and Mooshums...:( I really needed to read your words.

908B64B197 5y ago
> My Dad was in the RCMP. I was born on reserve and spent a large part of my youth on and around reserve. My Dad did some bad things and his uniform is certainly not absolved of guilt. A lot of my privilege came because of his job. It's quite sad to know how much I've benefited from white privilege and this entire awful system. > I will happily pay for what happened. My privilege is as obvious as oxygen and I have gained tremendous advantages as the result of an awful system. I will happily pay, never stop paying and advocate until I'm blue in the face. Worst case scenario, we might change some minds. Best case scenario, we might change some worlds. Are you willing to give-up your father's inheritance?
- hluska 5y ago
  Sure am.

requin246 5y ago

The issue with assigning guilt from the actions of ancestors is that not everyone is guilty. I’m first generation Canadian. Is it fair that I should pay for the sins of your great grandfathers when mine weren’t even in the country? Canada accepts 300k immigrants per year. Since the closure of the residential schools, (very roughly speaking) 9m people have entered the country so it’s not a small number we’re talking about here. There’s also the added issue that not everyone supported the residential schools. What if my ancestors protested the system? Should I still pay reparations? I agree the quality of life on the reserves is a real problem that needs to be fixed but pushing the blame on the children of the settlers (or not even their children!) is not a good solution.

neom 5y ago
Personally I think it's rather naive to immigrate to a country and then not to expect to inherit what comes with that, both the good and the bad. I think everyone who claims themselves as a Canadian hold this responsibility equally, I don't really care what generation Canadian you are or where you immigrated from, you don't get to pick and choose your Canadianness, we're all in this together. Isn't that part of the beauty of Canada? To embrace each other, tackle hard problems, and move our society forward?
- jankyxenon 5y ago
  If you pull the thread all the way back - if it’s morally right to pay reparations, wouldn’t it also be morally correct in the same vein to give the land back? How do you actually pay reparations for taking someone’s land?
  - neom 5y ago
    If you pull the thread all the way back - if it’s morally right to pay reparations, it would also be morally correct in the same vein, to give the land back. That is correct. If they wanted the land back, and I had to move, I wouldn't be opposed to that, and I'd imagine my opinion is more common than one might expect. That said, I'm not sure how useful the point is. I've very rarely heard a native person say they would like that. I have heard that proposed, usually drunken and angry over beer. When I was a kid my dad had the Chief of Couchiching First Nation over for dinner. In my 17 year old wisdom, I eagerly explained how sad it is that natives don't want to go live in Toronto. He said, natives would love to be in Toronto, if Toronto was a little more like a reserve. I think they have unfortunately long accepted they've been colonized, the treaties were not honored, and their culture was destroyed. Meaningful reparation at this point is unlikely to be about land or money, it's about Canada accepting it cannot be Canada without real change to re-incorporate the culturual growth that was strangled.