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Are there any guidelines about safe fasting? I know 2 people that developed gallbladder stones and had to undergo gallbladder surgery after a sudden switch to

Are there any guidelines about safe fasting? I know 2 people that developed gallbladder stones and had to undergo gallbladder surgery after a sudden switch to plant-based diet for a month. Doctors say a rapid weight loss might be the cause. I imagine it is only worse with real fasting.

at_a_remove 5y ago
Well, you could supplement with ursodiol, lecithin, and peppermint gel caps taken as a bolus at bedtime during fasting.
lmilcin 5y ago
Absolutely necessary: drink water. Also, if you have any medical conditions or plan to fast longer than 2 weeks -- seek medical observation. I would also suggest eating a tiny bit of vitamins, electrolytes and proteins, just for safety. Your organism cannot synthesize all proteins that are needed and can't produce vitamins (by very definition) even if it gets good at conserving them. For example tryptophan is precursor for serotonin and melatonin and cannot be synthesized by human body. You are risking depression and sleep problems without any intake of it. Also I am not medical professional. You should probably not base your health and safety on word of a layman dropping his opinion on HN:)
- wodenokoto 5y ago
  Why “a little bit” of vitamins? I would expect “top of recommendations if not more”
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    Because something funny happens to organism on fast and it starts conserving absolutely everything. So what is recommended amount during "normal operation" is probably too much while your organism is in emergency preservation mode. Now, fast is no magic, the organism still uses up stores of various chemicals, just slower, so it still can "run out" of some things even if it still has a bunch of fat available for energy. One way organism can preserve chemicals is the simple fact it no longer has to digest stuff and then expell a lot of waste products. All of this is normally huge drag on your body, mostly on your liver. When on fast, that process is no longer necessary (mostly) and your liver gets much more efficient at the smaller number and volume of metabolic pathways. So when you are on fast and drop a vitamin, your body has not much else to do and will be very efficient at incorporating those vitamins into your body when normally most of these vitamins would not be used because the pathways necessary would be busy doing something else. It is also really funny to observe you can be not eating anything but still poop for at least a weak.
    - yownie 5y ago
      >It is also really funny to observe you can be not eating anything but still poop for at least a weak. Isn't that because the body will still be excreting dead red blood cells and other short term cells. I had read somewhere that's often the bulk of feces anyway plus undigestable fibers
lifty 5y ago
* Don't start with longer than 2-3 days fasts * Drink plenty of water and you can supplement with some electrolytes to replace what you lose * Read about re-feeding syndrome. Don't eat a lot when you start eating again and avoid high sugar stuff in the beginning.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  > * Don't start with longer than 2-3 days fasts Oh, absolutely right. If you have never missed a meal in your life and you plan to start multi-week fast you are in for a rude awakening. As with any other change for your organism, you are best doing it slowly and letting your body adapt. The metabolic pathways needed for operation while fasting are different from the ones you train on 3 meals a day. You need to let them develop a little bit before you go for a long fast. It would be like trying to run a marathon without any training.
TimSchumann 5y ago
1) Have the bodyfat stored as energy if you're going to do an extended fast. I wouldn't push anything beyond a week if you're below 10% bodyfat for men, 15% for women. 2) Drink water, not too much, not too little. 3) Supplement electrolytes. Sodium, Magnesium, Potassium. You can see my comments elsewhere in this thread for more details on that.

at_a_remove 5y ago

Well, you could supplement with ursodiol, lecithin, and peppermint gel caps taken as a bolus at bedtime during fasting.

lmilcin 5y ago

Absolutely necessary: drink water. Also, if you have any medical conditions or plan to fast longer than 2 weeks -- seek medical observation. I would also suggest eating a tiny bit of vitamins, electrolytes and proteins, just for safety. Your organism cannot synthesize all proteins that are needed and can't produce vitamins (by very definition) even if it gets good at conserving them. For example tryptophan is precursor for serotonin and melatonin and cannot be synthesized by human body. You are risking depression and sleep problems without any intake of it. Also I am not medical professional. You should probably not base your health and safety on word of a layman dropping his opinion on HN:)

wodenokoto 5y ago
Why “a little bit” of vitamins? I would expect “top of recommendations if not more”
- lmilcin 5y ago
  Because something funny happens to organism on fast and it starts conserving absolutely everything. So what is recommended amount during "normal operation" is probably too much while your organism is in emergency preservation mode. Now, fast is no magic, the organism still uses up stores of various chemicals, just slower, so it still can "run out" of some things even if it still has a bunch of fat available for energy. One way organism can preserve chemicals is the simple fact it no longer has to digest stuff and then expell a lot of waste products. All of this is normally huge drag on your body, mostly on your liver. When on fast, that process is no longer necessary (mostly) and your liver gets much more efficient at the smaller number and volume of metabolic pathways. So when you are on fast and drop a vitamin, your body has not much else to do and will be very efficient at incorporating those vitamins into your body when normally most of these vitamins would not be used because the pathways necessary would be busy doing something else. It is also really funny to observe you can be not eating anything but still poop for at least a weak.
  - yownie 5y ago
    >It is also really funny to observe you can be not eating anything but still poop for at least a weak. Isn't that because the body will still be excreting dead red blood cells and other short term cells. I had read somewhere that's often the bulk of feces anyway plus undigestable fibers

lifty 5y ago

* Don't start with longer than 2-3 days fasts * Drink plenty of water and you can supplement with some electrolytes to replace what you lose * Read about re-feeding syndrome. Don't eat a lot when you start eating again and avoid high sugar stuff in the beginning.

lmilcin 5y ago
> * Don't start with longer than 2-3 days fasts Oh, absolutely right. If you have never missed a meal in your life and you plan to start multi-week fast you are in for a rude awakening. As with any other change for your organism, you are best doing it slowly and letting your body adapt. The metabolic pathways needed for operation while fasting are different from the ones you train on 3 meals a day. You need to let them develop a little bit before you go for a long fast. It would be like trying to run a marathon without any training.

TimSchumann 5y ago

1) Have the bodyfat stored as energy if you're going to do an extended fast. I wouldn't push anything beyond a week if you're below 10% bodyfat for men, 15% for women. 2) Drink water, not too much, not too little. 3) Supplement electrolytes. Sodium, Magnesium, Potassium. You can see my comments elsewhere in this thread for more details on that.