6 ms·

Getting rid of tiles and similar seems like a substantial improvement, and might address part of people's complaints about Windows 10. The most important questi

Getting rid of tiles and similar seems like a substantial improvement, and might address part of people's complaints about Windows 10. The most important question, though: is Windows still "evergreen" with free updates, or will people have to buy Windows 11? The latter would mean we can't count on Windows systems being up to date. I was happily looking forward to the day when software could just support Windows 10 and no other Windows version.

MrOxiMoron 5y ago
yeah, no... I know a hospital that just upgraded to Windows 7...
- roblabla 5y ago
  That hospital is dumb and will likely face issues in the near future then. Win7 isn't supported by Microsoft since early 2020, which means no more security updates. Given hospitals are getting more and more frequently targeted by ransomware... Well, we'll see how that goes. There's still win8 and win8.1 to worry about though, and win10 also has LTSC releases that stay supported for at least 10 years IIRC.
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    What I don’t get is hospitals buying things like MRI scanners, with Windows based “controller” with no upgrade path. The hospital, and the manufacturer, knows that the version of Windows they’re running will be EOL before the hardware, yet nobody ask the manufacturer how they plan to deal with that fact. The promise of Windows 10 being the last Windows could have but an end to that nonsense.
    - mimsee 5y ago
      > ...with no upgrade path. The manufacturer of the MRI machine doesn't care. In their mind the "upgrade path" is to buy a new one. That might support the current iteration of Windows + their drivers until the next Windows is released. Sure it's nonsense but the hospital can't just not have an MRI machine. They need one and someone will capitalize on that need.
      - johncalvinyoung 5y ago
        MRI machines aren't like a copier. They're million-plus dollar room-sized installs that require massive facilities support, custom spaces, and in many places in the US, a certificate of need to allow you to purchase and install it (distributed geographically by population and governmental formulas). I suspect the 'replacement' or 'upgrade' market for such machines is very very low. Major capital expenditure intended to be amortized/depreciated over many years.
    - lovich 5y ago
      If it’s not networked does it matter if it gets updates?
    - Aerroon 5y ago
      Why does it matter? Just don't connect it to the internet and there should be no issue. Why would you want to update software that could potentially break your super expensive machine if it already works?
      - anderskaseorg 5y ago
        So what you’re saying is, this can’t have happened because nobody would be dumb enough to buy a convenient Internet-enabled smart device and then actually connect it to the Internet: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/17/wannacry-ransomware-hit-real-medical-devices/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/17/wanna... And also that this problem definitely won’t get worse as more and more of these devices are built on platforms that want to require you to sign in with a cloud service…
        Aerroon 5y ago
        Of course people are going to do silly things, but you can't protect people from stupidity. >And also that this problem definitely won’t get worse as more and more of these devices are built on platforms that want to require you to sign in with a cloud service… Which is why it's so important that not giving network access to medical machines becomes standard practice.
        ziml77 5y ago
        It blows my mind that any would be accessible from the internet. These devices shouldn't be networked at all if possible. But at the very least they should be on their own network, preferably physically isolated instead of VLANs.
      - mrweasel 5y ago
        But they know that it has to be network enabled. MRIs connects to a PACS. That’s how you actually get any useful information from an MRI.
  - EvanAnderson 5y ago
    Windows 7 is absolutely still supported through an ESU subscription through 2022. There are plenty of organizations who are using that program to continue to use Windows 7 in places where it makes financial sense.
  - zten 5y ago
    A buddy of mine with a Subway franchise is finally being prodded by corporate to upgrade his Windows 7 hardware. They still have support for Windows 7 for a little while, but not long -- it's apparently done by August 31st this year. And, their upgrade path is Windows 10 LTSC, which will expire in 2026.
partiallypro 5y ago
I believe they have said, or hinted, that it will be a free upgrade. Microsoft has an incentive itself to get as many people on one build itself to lower legacy costs.
po1nter 5y ago
Windows 11 will be a free upgrade: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22546801/microsoft-windows-11-free-upgrade-details https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22546801/microsoft-window...
- JoshTriplett 5y ago
  Looks like that news just came out. Glad to hear it. Now let's hope it's an automatic upgrade for as many Windows 10 users as possible.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    Let's not, because I have no interest in windows 11 from what I've heard so far.
  - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
    Let's hope not, thank you. It's one thing to force an update that just makes background improvements. It's another thing entirely to force a UI update that breaks your workflow. Most of us just got the people we support used to the new design now they're going to up and change it completely again. My Grandmother has basically given up using the computer because she doesn't have the mental energy to relearn a UI every time some MBA comes along wanting to "disrupt" the status quo. It's basically akin to the company that manufactures your car showing up at your house while you're sleeping, moving the steering wheel to the center of the car, re-arranging buttons on the console, blacking out two of the windows because it looks cool, then leaving a nice little note on your front porch: "We upgraded your car, it's so much better!"
    - JoshTriplett 5y ago
      Software developers around the world don't have to build software compatible with your old car, and get blamed for any incompatibility. There have already been posts showing that there's an option to put the start menu back on the left if you want that. Hopefully there will be options to deal with other inconveniences. As it stands, this already looks like it fixes many of the complaints people had about Windows 10; in that regard, parts of it are exactly what many people asked for. I don't want people to deal with a UI they dislike. I also don't want developers having to deal with a no-longer-evergreen OS. Windows was the last OS to move to the evergreen model; when Windows 10 came out, it was a great relief to many developers, who saw a point on the horizon where there was only one version of Windows they would have to support, and it would always be up to date. Remember, the alternative isn't just "oh well, I guess we'll support Windows 10 and Windows 11". One alternative is "guess we'll build a web app instead", or "guess we'll drop support for Windows 10" (in which case people still need to upgrade, but they blame app developers instead of Windows). I'm sure the option will exist to not upgrade, at least for a while. But if the default is to upgrade, app developers get much less of the blame if they expect and depend on that upgrade.
rhengles 5y ago
I found a link to a tool[0] that checks your PC compatibility with Windows 11, but it seems that many many people with powerful devices are getting a "No" answer. [0] https://twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1408075658350108674 https://twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1408075658350108674
- neogodless 5y ago
  Looks like AMD systems might mostly be coming back as "This PC can't run Windows 11." > Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0 Possibly most AMD motherboards don't have TPM integrated? I don't know a lot about TPM though. Someone said... > enable tpm in your bios i did it and it worked for me, I have a 3080, 5800x, 16gb of ram EDIT: My motherboard (Asus Prime X470 Pro) lists TPM as a separate module you buy, but the connector is present. $12 module, for example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237446-REG/asus_tpm_m_r2_0_14_1_pin_tpm_module.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237446-REG/asus_tpm_... The manual does list an fTPM setting as well, but I have not tested that yet.
  - izacus 5y ago
    > Possibly most AMD motherboards don't have TPM integrated? I don't know a lot about TPM though. Ryzen CPUs do have TPM onboard - at least my Ryzen 3800X does have it. It's disabled by default for some reason. Funny enough, Apple laptops don't have it so Windows 11 won't be usable in BootCamp on Intel Macs.
  - OGWhales 5y ago
    Thanks for this info. Supposedly the fTPM should work with Ryzen CPUs and offer TPM 2.0, but I can't confirm now either. Similar deal to yours, my Gigabyte x570 board offers TPM cards: https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/TPM-Card https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/TPM-Card. I am assuming this is unnecessary tho, but good to know.
    - Deathmax 5y ago
      Posting from the other Windows 11 post, I can confirm that a Ryzen fTPM will get a checkmark from the PC Health tool at least. Screenshot of the security processor page: https://i.imgur.com/ZWtq8EO.png https://i.imgur.com/ZWtq8EO.png Screenshot of the PC health check: https://i.imgur.com/Rb3eZIc.png https://i.imgur.com/Rb3eZIc.png
zamalek 5y ago
> is Windows still "evergreen" with free updates, or will people have to buy Windows 11? It's a free upgrade, just like 8 -> 10. I assume Microsoft is doing this because of the hype that typically surrounds new Mac OS versions. I have no doubt that this could have been one of the evergreen updates, if only Microsoft hadn't been calling Windows 10 updates 'exciting' things like "21H2".

MrOxiMoron 5y ago

yeah, no... I know a hospital that just upgraded to Windows 7...

roblabla 5y ago
That hospital is dumb and will likely face issues in the near future then. Win7 isn't supported by Microsoft since early 2020, which means no more security updates. Given hospitals are getting more and more frequently targeted by ransomware... Well, we'll see how that goes. There's still win8 and win8.1 to worry about though, and win10 also has LTSC releases that stay supported for at least 10 years IIRC.
- mrweasel 5y ago
  What I don’t get is hospitals buying things like MRI scanners, with Windows based “controller” with no upgrade path. The hospital, and the manufacturer, knows that the version of Windows they’re running will be EOL before the hardware, yet nobody ask the manufacturer how they plan to deal with that fact. The promise of Windows 10 being the last Windows could have but an end to that nonsense.
  - mimsee 5y ago
    > ...with no upgrade path. The manufacturer of the MRI machine doesn't care. In their mind the "upgrade path" is to buy a new one. That might support the current iteration of Windows + their drivers until the next Windows is released. Sure it's nonsense but the hospital can't just not have an MRI machine. They need one and someone will capitalize on that need.
    - johncalvinyoung 5y ago
      MRI machines aren't like a copier. They're million-plus dollar room-sized installs that require massive facilities support, custom spaces, and in many places in the US, a certificate of need to allow you to purchase and install it (distributed geographically by population and governmental formulas). I suspect the 'replacement' or 'upgrade' market for such machines is very very low. Major capital expenditure intended to be amortized/depreciated over many years.
  - lovich 5y ago
    If it’s not networked does it matter if it gets updates?
  - Aerroon 5y ago
    Why does it matter? Just don't connect it to the internet and there should be no issue. Why would you want to update software that could potentially break your super expensive machine if it already works?
    - anderskaseorg 5y ago
      So what you’re saying is, this can’t have happened because nobody would be dumb enough to buy a convenient Internet-enabled smart device and then actually connect it to the Internet: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/17/wannacry-ransomware-hit-real-medical-devices/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/05/17/wanna... And also that this problem definitely won’t get worse as more and more of these devices are built on platforms that want to require you to sign in with a cloud service…
      - Aerroon 5y ago
        Of course people are going to do silly things, but you can't protect people from stupidity. >And also that this problem definitely won’t get worse as more and more of these devices are built on platforms that want to require you to sign in with a cloud service… Which is why it's so important that not giving network access to medical machines becomes standard practice.
        ziml77 5y ago
        It blows my mind that any would be accessible from the internet. These devices shouldn't be networked at all if possible. But at the very least they should be on their own network, preferably physically isolated instead of VLANs.
    - mrweasel 5y ago
      But they know that it has to be network enabled. MRIs connects to a PACS. That’s how you actually get any useful information from an MRI.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  Windows 7 is absolutely still supported through an ESU subscription through 2022. There are plenty of organizations who are using that program to continue to use Windows 7 in places where it makes financial sense.
- zten 5y ago
  A buddy of mine with a Subway franchise is finally being prodded by corporate to upgrade his Windows 7 hardware. They still have support for Windows 7 for a little while, but not long -- it's apparently done by August 31st this year. And, their upgrade path is Windows 10 LTSC, which will expire in 2026.

partiallypro 5y ago

I believe they have said, or hinted, that it will be a free upgrade. Microsoft has an incentive itself to get as many people on one build itself to lower legacy costs.

po1nter 5y ago

Windows 11 will be a free upgrade: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22546801/microsoft-windows-11-free-upgrade-details https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/24/22546801/microsoft-window...

JoshTriplett 5y ago
Looks like that news just came out. Glad to hear it. Now let's hope it's an automatic upgrade for as many Windows 10 users as possible.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  Let's not, because I have no interest in windows 11 from what I've heard so far.
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  Let's hope not, thank you. It's one thing to force an update that just makes background improvements. It's another thing entirely to force a UI update that breaks your workflow. Most of us just got the people we support used to the new design now they're going to up and change it completely again. My Grandmother has basically given up using the computer because she doesn't have the mental energy to relearn a UI every time some MBA comes along wanting to "disrupt" the status quo. It's basically akin to the company that manufactures your car showing up at your house while you're sleeping, moving the steering wheel to the center of the car, re-arranging buttons on the console, blacking out two of the windows because it looks cool, then leaving a nice little note on your front porch: "We upgraded your car, it's so much better!"
  - JoshTriplett 5y ago
    Software developers around the world don't have to build software compatible with your old car, and get blamed for any incompatibility. There have already been posts showing that there's an option to put the start menu back on the left if you want that. Hopefully there will be options to deal with other inconveniences. As it stands, this already looks like it fixes many of the complaints people had about Windows 10; in that regard, parts of it are exactly what many people asked for. I don't want people to deal with a UI they dislike. I also don't want developers having to deal with a no-longer-evergreen OS. Windows was the last OS to move to the evergreen model; when Windows 10 came out, it was a great relief to many developers, who saw a point on the horizon where there was only one version of Windows they would have to support, and it would always be up to date. Remember, the alternative isn't just "oh well, I guess we'll support Windows 10 and Windows 11". One alternative is "guess we'll build a web app instead", or "guess we'll drop support for Windows 10" (in which case people still need to upgrade, but they blame app developers instead of Windows). I'm sure the option will exist to not upgrade, at least for a while. But if the default is to upgrade, app developers get much less of the blame if they expect and depend on that upgrade.

rhengles 5y ago

I found a link to a tool[0] that checks your PC compatibility with Windows 11, but it seems that many many people with powerful devices are getting a "No" answer. [0] https://twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1408075658350108674 https://twitter.com/_h0x0d_/status/1408075658350108674

neogodless 5y ago
Looks like AMD systems might mostly be coming back as "This PC can't run Windows 11." > Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0 Possibly most AMD motherboards don't have TPM integrated? I don't know a lot about TPM though. Someone said... > enable tpm in your bios i did it and it worked for me, I have a 3080, 5800x, 16gb of ram EDIT: My motherboard (Asus Prime X470 Pro) lists TPM as a separate module you buy, but the connector is present. $12 module, for example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237446-REG/asus_tpm_m_r2_0_14_1_pin_tpm_module.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1237446-REG/asus_tpm_... The manual does list an fTPM setting as well, but I have not tested that yet.
- izacus 5y ago
  > Possibly most AMD motherboards don't have TPM integrated? I don't know a lot about TPM though. Ryzen CPUs do have TPM onboard - at least my Ryzen 3800X does have it. It's disabled by default for some reason. Funny enough, Apple laptops don't have it so Windows 11 won't be usable in BootCamp on Intel Macs.
- OGWhales 5y ago
  Thanks for this info. Supposedly the fTPM should work with Ryzen CPUs and offer TPM 2.0, but I can't confirm now either. Similar deal to yours, my Gigabyte x570 board offers TPM cards: https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/TPM-Card https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/TPM-Card. I am assuming this is unnecessary tho, but good to know.
  - Deathmax 5y ago
    Posting from the other Windows 11 post, I can confirm that a Ryzen fTPM will get a checkmark from the PC Health tool at least. Screenshot of the security processor page: https://i.imgur.com/ZWtq8EO.png https://i.imgur.com/ZWtq8EO.png Screenshot of the PC health check: https://i.imgur.com/Rb3eZIc.png https://i.imgur.com/Rb3eZIc.png

zamalek 5y ago

> is Windows still "evergreen" with free updates, or will people have to buy Windows 11? It's a free upgrade, just like 8 -> 10. I assume Microsoft is doing this because of the hype that typically surrounds new Mac OS versions. I have no doubt that this could have been one of the evergreen updates, if only Microsoft hadn't been calling Windows 10 updates 'exciting' things like "21H2".