6 ms·

This would be cool for earth satellites. On the other hand watching a stream involving something on Mars, let alone voyager, would be pretty boring! Send: ls

This would be cool for earth satellites. On the other hand watching a stream involving something on Mars, let alone voyager, would be pretty boring! Send: ls Ok let's take a 20 minute break.

abnry 5y ago
Job Posting: NASA programmer, needs at least 1 wpm typing speed and experience with compiling large projects.
- gundul 5y ago
  Best programmer. -1 wpm.
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    Only needs a keyboard with one key.
    - robocat 5y ago
      A telegraph key: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_key https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_key
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    I'm so fast that I can do -127wpm. Only in certain software though.
- diamondo25 5y ago
  The amount of preparation is much, much more than every other "accessible" installation. Typos are the worst to recover from, backspace usually doesnt exist. As I've sent commands to our Linux-running satellites, its usually prepending your commands with ctrl-c characters and a couple newlines at the end, just to make sure it runs and nothing is left in the buffer. There is also a possibility that commands get executed multiple times, and there are usually limits in transmission speed, processing speed, and frame length. Sending a lot of characters over a terminal can cause characters to be eaten, creating typos you can't see, affecting the commanding immensely.
  - abnry 5y ago
    Very fascinating! You haven't happened to written a blog post or something on this, have you? I am sure HN would love reading about it.
    - diamondo25 5y ago
      Sorry, I did not. There are plenty of stories on the internet about cubesats, they get launched by universities even :)
  - bentcorner 5y ago
    Isn't there some way to ensure that what you typed is what is being executed? Dropping characters from the terminal sounds terrifying. I don't know enough about ssh and terminals to know if it's possible to type "12345" and see "12345" echoed back to me but really what the remote session sees is "1245".
    - diamondo25 5y ago
      Yes, terminals usually echo back the characters. In our case this would be buffered and we could request the buffer. But that would still take some operations. Best way, usually, is to send a bunch of commands in a way you ensure proper order of execution (eg write a file, check checksum of file, execute file), and make sure you can pull the logs afterwards. Nowadays, links and systems get easier to work with, and you can sometimes have a literal TTY open to the system, like Reactor Hello World has ( https://reaktorspace.com/reaktor-hello-world/ https://reaktorspace.com/reaktor-hello-world/ ). However, this is over S-band, which is a 2Mbit/s link, so overhead for a stable TTY (or ethernet connection) is a lot less than using UHF/VHF.
  - 3pt14159 5y ago
    I'm surprised theres no error correction in your uplink. Crazy.
    - diamondo25 5y ago
      It depends on the API. If your API is "put this data over uart to the TTY", and the uart of the device is overloaded and drops characters... Or maybe mangles characters due to bitflips. Or what have you. Its all possible!
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  Time to bring back flowchart templates.
diamondo25 5y ago
From my work experience its like this: 1. Assemble commands to run 2. Run the commands and see results in the 15 minute window 3. See if you can do more commanding in the minutes you have left 4. Make a new plan, wait for next pass, and goto 1 For LEO satellites, that usually means you have 2 blocks of 3 13 minute passes, when the groundstation is in The Netherlands. For a Svalbard groundstation, you get a lot more, but still 13 minute or less passess.
throwawayboise 5y ago
If you ever worked on a busy mainframe your compile jobs could easily be queued for 20-30 minutes. Made you much more careful to check for typos and do test runs of the code "in your head" before submitting.
sfink 5y ago
I've worked on something like this, just a lot more mundane. We had Linux PCs strapped to the ceiling of various locations, mostly malls, together with a camera and projector to produce an interactive display on the floor. I had a couple of times where somebody would be onsite and the projector would be off or the display would be mangled. And it takes quite a while to get a lift to get up to the box (if it would even be allowed at that time of day), there was no network at that time, and all they had was a wireless IR keyboard that occasionally dropped keypresses. Imagine dictating shell commands, over the phone, to a salesperson who has no idea what half the characters are that you're asking him to type, and the only output signal I could come up with was ejecting the CD tray, which was just visible from the ground... (Note that the goal wasn't usually to fix things on the spot, it was more to triage things like whether we needed to have a replacement projector on hand, which was a big deal.)

This would be cool for earth satellites. On the other hand watching a stream involving something on Mars, let alone voyager, would be pretty boring! Send: ls Ok let's take a 20 minute break.

abnry 5y ago

Job Posting: NASA programmer, needs at least 1 wpm typing speed and experience with compiling large projects.

gundul 5y ago
Best programmer. -1 wpm.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  Only needs a keyboard with one key.
  - robocat 5y ago
    A telegraph key: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_key https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph_key
- mywittyname 5y ago
  I'm so fast that I can do -127wpm. Only in certain software though.
diamondo25 5y ago
The amount of preparation is much, much more than every other "accessible" installation. Typos are the worst to recover from, backspace usually doesnt exist. As I've sent commands to our Linux-running satellites, its usually prepending your commands with ctrl-c characters and a couple newlines at the end, just to make sure it runs and nothing is left in the buffer. There is also a possibility that commands get executed multiple times, and there are usually limits in transmission speed, processing speed, and frame length. Sending a lot of characters over a terminal can cause characters to be eaten, creating typos you can't see, affecting the commanding immensely.
- abnry 5y ago
  Very fascinating! You haven't happened to written a blog post or something on this, have you? I am sure HN would love reading about it.
  - diamondo25 5y ago
    Sorry, I did not. There are plenty of stories on the internet about cubesats, they get launched by universities even :)
- bentcorner 5y ago
  Isn't there some way to ensure that what you typed is what is being executed? Dropping characters from the terminal sounds terrifying. I don't know enough about ssh and terminals to know if it's possible to type "12345" and see "12345" echoed back to me but really what the remote session sees is "1245".
  - diamondo25 5y ago
    Yes, terminals usually echo back the characters. In our case this would be buffered and we could request the buffer. But that would still take some operations. Best way, usually, is to send a bunch of commands in a way you ensure proper order of execution (eg write a file, check checksum of file, execute file), and make sure you can pull the logs afterwards. Nowadays, links and systems get easier to work with, and you can sometimes have a literal TTY open to the system, like Reactor Hello World has ( https://reaktorspace.com/reaktor-hello-world/ https://reaktorspace.com/reaktor-hello-world/ ). However, this is over S-band, which is a 2Mbit/s link, so overhead for a stable TTY (or ethernet connection) is a lot less than using UHF/VHF.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  I'm surprised theres no error correction in your uplink. Crazy.
  - diamondo25 5y ago
    It depends on the API. If your API is "put this data over uart to the TTY", and the uart of the device is overloaded and drops characters... Or maybe mangles characters due to bitflips. Or what have you. Its all possible!
mkr-hn 5y ago
Time to bring back flowchart templates.

diamondo25 5y ago

From my work experience its like this: 1. Assemble commands to run 2. Run the commands and see results in the 15 minute window 3. See if you can do more commanding in the minutes you have left 4. Make a new plan, wait for next pass, and goto 1 For LEO satellites, that usually means you have 2 blocks of 3 13 minute passes, when the groundstation is in The Netherlands. For a Svalbard groundstation, you get a lot more, but still 13 minute or less passess.

throwawayboise 5y ago

If you ever worked on a busy mainframe your compile jobs could easily be queued for 20-30 minutes. Made you much more careful to check for typos and do test runs of the code "in your head" before submitting.

sfink 5y ago

I've worked on something like this, just a lot more mundane. We had Linux PCs strapped to the ceiling of various locations, mostly malls, together with a camera and projector to produce an interactive display on the floor. I had a couple of times where somebody would be onsite and the projector would be off or the display would be mangled. And it takes quite a while to get a lift to get up to the box (if it would even be allowed at that time of day), there was no network at that time, and all they had was a wireless IR keyboard that occasionally dropped keypresses. Imagine dictating shell commands, over the phone, to a salesperson who has no idea what half the characters are that you're asking him to type, and the only output signal I could come up with was ejecting the CD tray, which was just visible from the ground... (Note that the goal wasn't usually to fix things on the spot, it was more to triage things like whether we needed to have a replacement projector on hand, which was a big deal.)