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> We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other. That ship sailed over the horizon a long time ago, like at the

> We’re 50 different states that are, in theory, supposed to be quite independent of each other. That ship sailed over the horizon a long time ago, like at the latest with the adoption of the 14th Amendment nearly 150 years ago. When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time. And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens think of themselves as Americans, not as Marylanders or Texans (OK, granted, a lot of Texans think of themselves as Texans first, which isn't a good thing).

ericns 5y ago
Texan's thinking themselves Texan's is bad because it might be a hurdle to further illegitimate concentration of state power to the federal gov't. Looking at your bio, I'd guess your party to the democratic/republican conspiracy to localize government power in Washington, DC via courts and unconstitutional laws (FISA, all drug laws, PATRIOT ACT). You're all ABA (prosecutors, judges, legislators, politicians) and have set yourselves up in places beyond legal accountability. Y'all then selectively enforce your laws against those that seem to impede your ability to concentrate power (last couple presidents ordered the execution of American's without trial, where you boys at on that?). Hilarious a lawyer cites the 14th Amendment which IIRC mostly references equal protections while ensuring their ilk are beyond that legal accountability.
- dctoedt 5y ago
  I'm guessing you were my downvote, and yet I can't downvote your comment. The relevant text of the 14th Amendment here is its opening declaration: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ...." [0] (Emphasis added.) In other words: Under the 14th Amendment, United States citizenship takes precedence over state citizenship — kind of like the old boast, civis romanus sum: I'm a Roman citizen. (The implication was: fuck with me at your peril.) Cf. Act 22:25: "As they stretched him out to flog him, Paul said to the centurion standing there, 'Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who hasn’t even been found guilty?'" To be sure, there are Lost-Cause diehards who claim that the 14th Amendment never actually came into effect because the Southern states refused to ratify it and so it didn't get the necessary 3/4 of states; courts have consistently rejected that claim [1]. If anything, the former Confederate states should be grateful that they didn't get the treatment that the Allies meted out to the Germans and Japanese in 1945 and afterwards — one recent commentator, remarking on the outrages perpetrated in and by the post-Civil War South, tweeted that "Sherman should've mowed the deep south like a lawn, making multiple passes." [2] [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv [1] https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2000/attacking-14th-amendment https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/... [2] https://twitter.com/pptsapper/status/1313470161974947843 https://twitter.com/pptsapper/status/1313470161974947843
  - ericns 5y ago
    Not your down vote. You(ABA/Federal Gov't) claim us as subjects to your federal state. Notice the COVID bailouts going to the highest cost of living states with the largest state income taxes and budget deficits/debts? I don't really give a fuck about equal protection for states when the administrators are wholly removed from accountability. Notice the gun laws in DC and NY - the political and financial centers? Weird how the powerful in those states aren't accountable for their failures, always a bailout at the expense of labor for their financial and political quandries. How many times in the last couple decades have the financiers revealed themselves as liars while paying no personal cost for their lies and deceits? In an above comment - " > My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." Note the order. " The 14th Amendment is a fraud not because Southern states didn't ratify it while not apart of the Union. It's a fraud in the lack of enforcement against the power structures that initially enacted it. I don't believe you'd see it my way, I'm thinking because it's a bit - to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
    - dctoedt 5y ago
      > to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." If you'd done even a bit of homework about me, you'd see that your underlying premise is flawed.
      - ericns 5y ago
        My homework extends to knowing you're a lawyer, and given you do contract law for start ups I'm willing to bet you help them steal via the protections of the corporate veil. Again, the 14th Amendment says we're all equal before the law but I don't see a lot of boards / c-suite scumbags going to jail or having the previous decades of 'earnings' clawed back. And definitely not seeing any corporate death penalties. As far as I can tell, you're one of the dudes that helps them achieve a superior legal status to mere flash and blood humans like myself.
- tptacek 5y ago
  The words "looking at your bio, I'd guess" are so reliably a marker for bad HN comments that I'm a little surprised the site doesn't auto-flag such comments. The guidelines ask you not to write things like this here.
rayiner 5y ago
> When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." You don't swear loyalty to the constitution of a mere administrative subdivision. > And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens think of themselves as Americans, not as Marylanders or Texans (OK, granted, a lot of Texans think of themselves as Texans first, which isn't a good thing). I think that depends on the context of the question. If you ask people in the abstract, I agree most people identify as American first. But people have very well-developed affinities and prejudices about their states versus neighboring states that verge on nationalistic sentiment. Texans do, of course, which is something I find charming. But so do Oregonians. Having spent much of my adult life in Georgia, I can tell you exactly what I think about Floridians, Alabamans, South Carolinians, Mississippians, etc. (A lot of these sentiments play out through college football, the way they play out through soccer in Europe.) My wife, being a fifth generation Oregonian, would not move to California to save her life. Having relocated to Maryland, we have both cultivated an active dislike of Virginians (what the heck are they doing here, with their license plates?)
- dctoedt 5y ago
  > My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." Note the order.

ericns 5y ago

Texan's thinking themselves Texan's is bad because it might be a hurdle to further illegitimate concentration of state power to the federal gov't. Looking at your bio, I'd guess your party to the democratic/republican conspiracy to localize government power in Washington, DC via courts and unconstitutional laws (FISA, all drug laws, PATRIOT ACT). You're all ABA (prosecutors, judges, legislators, politicians) and have set yourselves up in places beyond legal accountability. Y'all then selectively enforce your laws against those that seem to impede your ability to concentrate power (last couple presidents ordered the execution of American's without trial, where you boys at on that?). Hilarious a lawyer cites the 14th Amendment which IIRC mostly references equal protections while ensuring their ilk are beyond that legal accountability.

dctoedt 5y ago
I'm guessing you were my downvote, and yet I can't downvote your comment. The relevant text of the 14th Amendment here is its opening declaration: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ...." [0] (Emphasis added.) In other words: Under the 14th Amendment, United States citizenship takes precedence over state citizenship — kind of like the old boast, civis romanus sum: I'm a Roman citizen. (The implication was: fuck with me at your peril.) Cf. Act 22:25: "As they stretched him out to flog him, Paul said to the centurion standing there, 'Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who hasn’t even been found guilty?'" To be sure, there are Lost-Cause diehards who claim that the 14th Amendment never actually came into effect because the Southern states refused to ratify it and so it didn't get the necessary 3/4 of states; courts have consistently rejected that claim [1]. If anything, the former Confederate states should be grateful that they didn't get the treatment that the Allies meted out to the Germans and Japanese in 1945 and afterwards — one recent commentator, remarking on the outrages perpetrated in and by the post-Civil War South, tweeted that "Sherman should've mowed the deep south like a lawn, making multiple passes." [2] [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv [1] https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2000/attacking-14th-amendment https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/... [2] https://twitter.com/pptsapper/status/1313470161974947843 https://twitter.com/pptsapper/status/1313470161974947843
- ericns 5y ago
  Not your down vote. You(ABA/Federal Gov't) claim us as subjects to your federal state. Notice the COVID bailouts going to the highest cost of living states with the largest state income taxes and budget deficits/debts? I don't really give a fuck about equal protection for states when the administrators are wholly removed from accountability. Notice the gun laws in DC and NY - the political and financial centers? Weird how the powerful in those states aren't accountable for their failures, always a bailout at the expense of labor for their financial and political quandries. How many times in the last couple decades have the financiers revealed themselves as liars while paying no personal cost for their lies and deceits? In an above comment - " > My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." Note the order. " The 14th Amendment is a fraud not because Southern states didn't ratify it while not apart of the Union. It's a fraud in the lack of enforcement against the power structures that initially enacted it. I don't believe you'd see it my way, I'm thinking because it's a bit - to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
  - dctoedt 5y ago
    > to quote Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." If you'd done even a bit of homework about me, you'd see that your underlying premise is flawed.
    - ericns 5y ago
      My homework extends to knowing you're a lawyer, and given you do contract law for start ups I'm willing to bet you help them steal via the protections of the corporate veil. Again, the 14th Amendment says we're all equal before the law but I don't see a lot of boards / c-suite scumbags going to jail or having the previous decades of 'earnings' clawed back. And definitely not seeing any corporate death penalties. As far as I can tell, you're one of the dudes that helps them achieve a superior legal status to mere flash and blood humans like myself.
tptacek 5y ago
The words "looking at your bio, I'd guess" are so reliably a marker for bad HN comments that I'm a little surprised the site doesn't auto-flag such comments. The guidelines ask you not to write things like this here.

rayiner 5y ago

> When you took the oath to become a lawyer, you didn't swear allegiance to whatever state you happened to be living in at the time My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." You don't swear loyalty to the constitution of a mere administrative subdivision. > And sociologically, I'd venture that most U.S. citizens think of themselves as Americans, not as Marylanders or Texans (OK, granted, a lot of Texans think of themselves as Texans first, which isn't a good thing). I think that depends on the context of the question. If you ask people in the abstract, I agree most people identify as American first. But people have very well-developed affinities and prejudices about their states versus neighboring states that verge on nationalistic sentiment. Texans do, of course, which is something I find charming. But so do Oregonians. Having spent much of my adult life in Georgia, I can tell you exactly what I think about Floridians, Alabamans, South Carolinians, Mississippians, etc. (A lot of these sentiments play out through college football, the way they play out through soccer in Europe.) My wife, being a fifth generation Oregonian, would not move to California to save her life. Having relocated to Maryland, we have both cultivated an active dislike of Virginians (what the heck are they doing here, with their license plates?)

dctoedt 5y ago
> My New York bar oath says: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States, and the constitution of the State of New York." Note the order.