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Innovation is a joke in most companies. The few that actually innovate are probably startups with <10 employees or big companies with small groups acting like s

Innovation is a joke in most companies. The few that actually innovate are probably startups with <10 employees or big companies with small groups acting like startups. It's not chance meetings that brings innovation, it's purpose driven meetings (often had in stressful circumstances), which can happen very well on zoom. The real trade-off for companies is retention - productivity. People will have less distractions and be more productive when working remote from a quiet environment (unless you fill their schedule with unnecessary meetings because you don't trust them). The extra productivity comes at the expense of making friends and building relationships at work, which makes it easier for employees to just dump the company when you don't like it anymore.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
IMTDb 5y ago
Can we stop linking the remote vs onsite decision and the amount of meeting vs quiet time with "trust". All these issues are separate and - in my experience - very rarely tied together. You can be a remote first, no meeting company and have deep trust issues (eg: requiring very precise time sheets). Or have an absolute trust in your employees and have communications issues which leads to too many meetings being needed. Just saying that "you require onsite presence because you don't trust me", or "too many meetings are required because you don't trust your employees" is detrimental to the debate. You corner the whole discussion around trust, which is most cases is not the actual problem, and the core issues are then not addressed.
- wait_a_minute 5y ago
  I would absolutely not feel trusted if after working remotely for so long they say they “need” me to be in the office. I’d leave such a manager for another manager. Or that manager would be the reason I’m quitting and looking for a remote job tbh.
  - IMTDb 5y ago
    > I would absolutely not feel trusted if after working remotely for so long they say they “need” me to be in the office The problem is that the "I don't feel trusted" might be hiding the actual true underlying issue. What if your manager does trust you, why would he need you in the office ? Is it because you don't have proper communication channels ? Is it because he can't properly follow up what's going on ? Is it because he has to spend more time sharing the common vision with you and other employees ? Is it because he can't understand the issues you face anymore ? All these question are not related to him not trusting you in any way and they are very reasonable concerns. Identifying and addressing those will bring you one step closer to a fruitful collaboration. But if you stop the conversation at : "You want me to come back to the office, but I feel more productive at home so it means you don't trust me so I quit", is exactly the problem. It's super hard to start a reasonable conversation if the premise is "you don't trust me".
    - wait_a_minute 5y ago
      It is unreasonable to demand office presence in 2021 after 1.5 years of remote work being tried and tested at scale. It serves no real purpose. All those meetings about the common vision, etc, can be done via video chat. Some managers just want to power trip by walking around the office to see who is in their chair. That’s not how we do things anymore.
spamizbad 5y ago
Innovation is the product manager coming to your desk and saying "Hey <competitor B> has feature X. How long would it take for us to build something like that?"
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
I concur with your observations. I know several people who changed jobs when their old employer went remote. Their new job may be equally as remote, but pay increases and increased learning opportunities speak far louder when you haven’t seen your co-workers in-person for a year.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

IMTDb 5y ago

Can we stop linking the remote vs onsite decision and the amount of meeting vs quiet time with "trust". All these issues are separate and - in my experience - very rarely tied together. You can be a remote first, no meeting company and have deep trust issues (eg: requiring very precise time sheets). Or have an absolute trust in your employees and have communications issues which leads to too many meetings being needed. Just saying that "you require onsite presence because you don't trust me", or "too many meetings are required because you don't trust your employees" is detrimental to the debate. You corner the whole discussion around trust, which is most cases is not the actual problem, and the core issues are then not addressed.

wait_a_minute 5y ago
I would absolutely not feel trusted if after working remotely for so long they say they “need” me to be in the office. I’d leave such a manager for another manager. Or that manager would be the reason I’m quitting and looking for a remote job tbh.
- IMTDb 5y ago
  > I would absolutely not feel trusted if after working remotely for so long they say they “need” me to be in the office The problem is that the "I don't feel trusted" might be hiding the actual true underlying issue. What if your manager does trust you, why would he need you in the office ? Is it because you don't have proper communication channels ? Is it because he can't properly follow up what's going on ? Is it because he has to spend more time sharing the common vision with you and other employees ? Is it because he can't understand the issues you face anymore ? All these question are not related to him not trusting you in any way and they are very reasonable concerns. Identifying and addressing those will bring you one step closer to a fruitful collaboration. But if you stop the conversation at : "You want me to come back to the office, but I feel more productive at home so it means you don't trust me so I quit", is exactly the problem. It's super hard to start a reasonable conversation if the premise is "you don't trust me".
  - wait_a_minute 5y ago
    It is unreasonable to demand office presence in 2021 after 1.5 years of remote work being tried and tested at scale. It serves no real purpose. All those meetings about the common vision, etc, can be done via video chat. Some managers just want to power trip by walking around the office to see who is in their chair. That’s not how we do things anymore.

spamizbad 5y ago

Innovation is the product manager coming to your desk and saying "Hey <competitor B> has feature X. How long would it take for us to build something like that?"

BeFlatXIII 5y ago

I concur with your observations. I know several people who changed jobs when their old employer went remote. Their new job may be equally as remote, but pay increases and increased learning opportunities speak far louder when you haven’t seen your co-workers in-person for a year.