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Many decades. My grandfather was an avid RC aircraft enthusiast. They are simply not comparable to the drones that are being sold nowadays. 30, 40 years ago, R

Many decades. My grandfather was an avid RC aircraft enthusiast. They are simply not comparable to the drones that are being sold nowadays. 30, 40 years ago, RC aircraft were a seriously difficult and expensive hobby to get into. You generally had to build the plane yourself, including fitting the electronics and servicing the gasoline engine. They were huge and difficult to fly, too, so, after putting in all that investment, you generally wouldn't even consider flying it yourself without finding a mentor in the hobby to show you how it's done. And you'd generally have to do it out of an RC airstrip that was operated by an RC aviation club that was very interested in self-policing. Hijinks would get you kicked out. So, yeah, 30, 40 years ago you didn't need something like this, because it was not a, "Some grandparent trying to Win Christmas can just blow $200 at Wal-Mart and give one of these to a 4-year-old," kind of thing. There were some much-needed barriers to entry back then. Nowadays apparently any idiot can have one, and yes, it is creating a legitimate problem. A couple years back I almost took a drone to the face when someone was whizzing it around at night, with the light off, trying to startle passersby for laughs. Thankfully I took it to the shoulder instead.

airhead969 5y ago
America solve gun violence with regulation. Look how well it's working!
- marcinzm 5y ago
  The US has basically non-existent gun regulation by developed world standards. Go compare the gun violence rates in the US with any country that actually regulates guns.
  - airhead969 5y ago
    "Basically non-existent [sic]" like backgrounds checks. How would nanny state regulations work or be comparable when Americans already possess many guns? Cow / barn door.
    - handrous 5y ago
      What's the "[sic]" for? I don't see an error.
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      That's perhaps a true fact, but also, maybe a bit of a rhetorical own goal? I don't think that the gun lobby having been so successful at achieving a sort of crony capitalist vendor lock-in with the American public implies in any way that this is a good thing, which is what you'd have to demonstrate for this analogy to really help the case you're trying to present. I mean, if you're trying to say that regulation doesn't work, then pointing out that the the gun lobby has secured laws that severely limit firearm regulation in the USA, so now Americans already own a lot of guns and shoot each other a lot and there's nothing that can be done about it anymore, is perhaps doing more to illustrate the case that you're trying to argue against.
      - gunapologist99 5y ago
        > now Americans already own a lot of guns and shoot each other a lot Your analysis of the data may vary, but: Between 1998 and 2019, there have been more than 391,897,875 background checks for gun purchases in the U.S.[1]. It is unknown which of those were for rifles; it is also unknown what percentage of those background checks were for multiple firearm purchases in a single transactions. The AR-15 is the most popular rifle by far, so it seems entirely plausible that there are perhaps vastly more than 100 million AR-15's in private ownership in the U.S. (An interesting point is that it is rather unlikely that most people would be so unwise as to advertise ownership.) (Of note, there is no legal definition of assault rifle, and the "AR" in AR-15 stands for Armalite, one of the first manufacturers of the AR-15.) In total, less than 400 killings (including murders, self-defense, suicide etc) per year committed with all types of rifles[2]. (In fact, more people are killed each year with blunt objects like clubs, hammers, etc.) Those who wish to increase ownership of handguns would do well to note that many, many people in the U.S. own handguns for personal defense, and a very tiny fraction are used for killing in any given year. By far the largest handgun numbers are from people taking their own lives, and most of the others are from criminal activities, typically in large cities. Those criminal activities are committed by people who, by definition, do not obey the law. This is obviously a politically fraught topic; just wanted to provide some actual, if somewhat surprising, data. Again, your analysis and politics may vary, but that's the data. 1. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_mo... 2. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
  - 34679 5y ago
    >America has an 18 to one advantage over Brazil in the number of guns, yet proportionally, Brazil suffers six times more deaths by guns than America. >In Brazil, all firearms must be registered with the state. Minimum age for owning a gun is 25 and restrictions make it virtually impossible to have a carry permit. Owners must pay a $40 tax every three years. As a result of these and other restrictions, it is very difficult to own a gun in Brazil much less carry one. https://www.tfp.org/what-about-gun-violence-in-brazil/ https://www.tfp.org/what-about-gun-violence-in-brazil/
    - mumblemumble 5y ago
      The data are high variance, so you can't just pick individual cases and then only look at selected facets of them. That's classic cherry picking. You've got to look at large scale trends if you want to see a large scale pattern, and, if you want to dig into the particulars, you need to look at all the particulars. For example, that article you cite fails to consider the different levels of organized crime between the two countries. Perhaps because including that detail might necessitate acknowledging that Brazil and the USA have different gun crime problems with different causes that might therefore require different responses.
      - 34679 5y ago
        "Go compare the gun violence rates in the US with any country that actually regulates guns."
        marcinzm 5y ago
        Given that the first sentence mentioned developed nations I figured it was clear I meant any developed nation. Furthermore, regulates guns generally means actually regulates guns and not "has laws for regulating guns." The two are not the same except in countries that have stable governments, enough money to pay for law enforcement and low amounts of corruption. Unless you actually believe the state of the US government and economy is akin to that of a country like Brazil?
heelix 5y ago
Ironically enough, this is what drove me into real airplanes. As a kid, did the line and rc models. Very easy to turn hundreds of hours of build time into... trash. The cost of the better RC stuff was darn near what you might spend on an ultra light for manned flying. It is amazing how cheap drones became (and the corresponding... how much general aviation has gotten to be).
_hyn3 5y ago
This doesn't fit with my experience at all. They were somewhat expensive, yes, but only a bit more than a nice Lego set (which I got for Christmas one year). I don't even know if there was an aviation club nearby, but there were tons of RC airplane people that would just launch from their lawns.
Ancapistani 5y ago
Perhaps ironically, these very regulations are killing the "hobby" side of things. I've built several FPV quadcopter, from ~1" all the way up to 11" (based on the size of the props). I've invested thousands of dollars in the hobby, countless hours, and have even fulfilled the HAM radio requirements. The existing VLOS rules make it effectively illegal to fly them outdoors, period. Now, with this? No thanks. I'm done trying to fulfill arbitrary and ineffective requirements. I'll just fly my quads on my own property and if someone in a helicopter or a hang glider decides to dip below the treeline to fly under the power lines in my field, that's on them I guess.

airhead969 5y ago

America solve gun violence with regulation. Look how well it's working!

marcinzm 5y ago
The US has basically non-existent gun regulation by developed world standards. Go compare the gun violence rates in the US with any country that actually regulates guns.
- airhead969 5y ago
  "Basically non-existent [sic]" like backgrounds checks. How would nanny state regulations work or be comparable when Americans already possess many guns? Cow / barn door.
  - handrous 5y ago
    What's the "[sic]" for? I don't see an error.
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    That's perhaps a true fact, but also, maybe a bit of a rhetorical own goal? I don't think that the gun lobby having been so successful at achieving a sort of crony capitalist vendor lock-in with the American public implies in any way that this is a good thing, which is what you'd have to demonstrate for this analogy to really help the case you're trying to present. I mean, if you're trying to say that regulation doesn't work, then pointing out that the the gun lobby has secured laws that severely limit firearm regulation in the USA, so now Americans already own a lot of guns and shoot each other a lot and there's nothing that can be done about it anymore, is perhaps doing more to illustrate the case that you're trying to argue against.
    - gunapologist99 5y ago
      > now Americans already own a lot of guns and shoot each other a lot Your analysis of the data may vary, but: Between 1998 and 2019, there have been more than 391,897,875 background checks for gun purchases in the U.S.[1]. It is unknown which of those were for rifles; it is also unknown what percentage of those background checks were for multiple firearm purchases in a single transactions. The AR-15 is the most popular rifle by far, so it seems entirely plausible that there are perhaps vastly more than 100 million AR-15's in private ownership in the U.S. (An interesting point is that it is rather unlikely that most people would be so unwise as to advertise ownership.) (Of note, there is no legal definition of assault rifle, and the "AR" in AR-15 stands for Armalite, one of the first manufacturers of the AR-15.) In total, less than 400 killings (including murders, self-defense, suicide etc) per year committed with all types of rifles[2]. (In fact, more people are killed each year with blunt objects like clubs, hammers, etc.) Those who wish to increase ownership of handguns would do well to note that many, many people in the U.S. own handguns for personal defense, and a very tiny fraction are used for killing in any given year. By far the largest handgun numbers are from people taking their own lives, and most of the others are from criminal activities, typically in large cities. Those criminal activities are committed by people who, by definition, do not obey the law. This is obviously a politically fraught topic; just wanted to provide some actual, if somewhat surprising, data. Again, your analysis and politics may vary, but that's the data. 1. https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_mo... 2. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- 34679 5y ago
  >America has an 18 to one advantage over Brazil in the number of guns, yet proportionally, Brazil suffers six times more deaths by guns than America. >In Brazil, all firearms must be registered with the state. Minimum age for owning a gun is 25 and restrictions make it virtually impossible to have a carry permit. Owners must pay a $40 tax every three years. As a result of these and other restrictions, it is very difficult to own a gun in Brazil much less carry one. https://www.tfp.org/what-about-gun-violence-in-brazil/ https://www.tfp.org/what-about-gun-violence-in-brazil/
  - mumblemumble 5y ago
    The data are high variance, so you can't just pick individual cases and then only look at selected facets of them. That's classic cherry picking. You've got to look at large scale trends if you want to see a large scale pattern, and, if you want to dig into the particulars, you need to look at all the particulars. For example, that article you cite fails to consider the different levels of organized crime between the two countries. Perhaps because including that detail might necessitate acknowledging that Brazil and the USA have different gun crime problems with different causes that might therefore require different responses.
    - 34679 5y ago
      "Go compare the gun violence rates in the US with any country that actually regulates guns."
      - marcinzm 5y ago
        Given that the first sentence mentioned developed nations I figured it was clear I meant any developed nation. Furthermore, regulates guns generally means actually regulates guns and not "has laws for regulating guns." The two are not the same except in countries that have stable governments, enough money to pay for law enforcement and low amounts of corruption. Unless you actually believe the state of the US government and economy is akin to that of a country like Brazil?

heelix 5y ago

Ironically enough, this is what drove me into real airplanes. As a kid, did the line and rc models. Very easy to turn hundreds of hours of build time into... trash. The cost of the better RC stuff was darn near what you might spend on an ultra light for manned flying. It is amazing how cheap drones became (and the corresponding... how much general aviation has gotten to be).

_hyn3 5y ago

This doesn't fit with my experience at all. They were somewhat expensive, yes, but only a bit more than a nice Lego set (which I got for Christmas one year). I don't even know if there was an aviation club nearby, but there were tons of RC airplane people that would just launch from their lawns.

Ancapistani 5y ago

Perhaps ironically, these very regulations are killing the "hobby" side of things. I've built several FPV quadcopter, from ~1" all the way up to 11" (based on the size of the props). I've invested thousands of dollars in the hobby, countless hours, and have even fulfilled the HAM radio requirements. The existing VLOS rules make it effectively illegal to fly them outdoors, period. Now, with this? No thanks. I'm done trying to fulfill arbitrary and ineffective requirements. I'll just fly my quads on my own property and if someone in a helicopter or a hang glider decides to dip below the treeline to fly under the power lines in my field, that's on them I guess.