5 ms·

This is the major downside of centralised app stores. On the plain old internet, nobody had to care about the whims of regressive governments. Worst case, the g

This is the major downside of centralised app stores. On the plain old internet, nobody had to care about the whims of regressive governments. Worst case, the government would try to block the website and often fail and/or face public backlash. Now, the government can just tell google or apple that they don't like the app, and the problem is solved. This is quite tragic for an app like signal because it really does not deal with the country's currency in any shape nor does it have any presence in the country, but because google/apple have to do business in the country, signal takes the fall.

swiley 5y ago
And before you say "just buy a different device" my understanding is that Indian customs have blocked the PinePhone.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  Well, and even if they weren't, it costs a lot of money and means you loose access to your existing apps and ecosystem.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The pinephone is very cheap, but yes you lose your ecosystem.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      Cheap for us or cheap for people in India?
      - joshuaissac 5y ago
        The cheapest Pinephone ($150) costs about the same as the average smartphone in India.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        Yes, but adjust for salary in india.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Well yes, but there are almost no new phones under that price. It's priced appropriately for a new phone in India.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        But the phone you already have, once purchased, costs $0. So it's a high switching cost!
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        of course, you would either sell the phone or wait for it to break or become too old before switching.
andix 5y ago
I'm really interested how this will continue. At least on Android phones you can still sideload Signal via an alternative app store.
- ridiculous_lol 5y ago
  It definitely becomes tiresome than downloading an alternative chat app from Playstore. Signal has been gaining ground in India since Whatsapp came up with its new terms. A ban on Playstore will hinder that progress.
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  If you want to piggy back on Google's centralized notification system (which saves network and battery usage), you have to distribute via the play store. I have no idea whether signal does this, but it would make sense for them to.
  - vngzs 5y ago
    Signal has a means of delivering push notifications using their own infrastructure via websockets. It has a higher battery drain than using Google's push infrastructure, but it works.
  - grishka 5y ago
    You don't. You do need to create an app in the Google API console to obtain the key to send GCM notifications, but that's completely independent from the Play Store.
    - CameronNemo 5y ago
      Also I believe microG does intermediate with GCM if you ask it to.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  There has been speculation that in a future Android version, Google will extend features of its Advanced Protection program to all devices. One of those is that sideloading of APKs will no longer be possible unless you do it over the command line via ADB. Only a tiny percentage of the population, techies like us, would be comfortable doing that. So, "you can still sideload" might not be a thing for long.
bvi 5y ago
> centralised app stores Makes me wonder...are there blockchain-based app stores that could serve as a viable alternative?
- foepys 5y ago
  Why would you need blockchain? For decades decentralized services worked without blockchain.
  - edoceo 5y ago
    But bLoCkChAiN!!
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    A blockchain allows developers to out-source the running of a globally-available append-only log. Such a log is useful for building something like Trillian: https://transparency.dev/#trillian https://transparency.dev/#trillian
    - aaronfitz 5y ago
      I was very confused by this comment until I realized that this is a different project from the Trillian messenger.
    - rakoo 5y ago
      Ok but how does a globally-available append-only log help distribute applications ? The technology is probably interesting, but it doesn't help solve the problem at hand
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        If you can securely distribute the hash of the binary, you can probably also distribute a set of URLs representing where the binary can be downloaded from. Bittorrent would fit well as a way of distributing the apps themselves, as that ecosystem already uses magnet links, and developers could quite cheaply run a node which acts as a seed of last resort.
grishka 5y ago
Android allows sideloading apps, and IIRC the market share of iOS in India is very small.
EthOptimist 5y ago
This is one of the big reasons I've chosen to use Android where I can install apks on my device. Though I may not have the "blue bubble" of iMessage so many in the USA seem to associate with higher status
okdjnfweonfe 5y ago
> On the plain old internet, nobody had to care about the whims of regressive governments. Wasn't X forced to not have encryption built in due to the US's horrible encryption laws at the time?

swiley 5y ago

And before you say "just buy a different device" my understanding is that Indian customs have blocked the PinePhone.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
Well, and even if they weren't, it costs a lot of money and means you loose access to your existing apps and ecosystem.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The pinephone is very cheap, but yes you lose your ecosystem.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    Cheap for us or cheap for people in India?
    - joshuaissac 5y ago
      The cheapest Pinephone ($150) costs about the same as the average smartphone in India.
      - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        Yes, but adjust for salary in india.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Well yes, but there are almost no new phones under that price. It's priced appropriately for a new phone in India.
        Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        But the phone you already have, once purchased, costs $0. So it's a high switching cost!
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        of course, you would either sell the phone or wait for it to break or become too old before switching.

andix 5y ago

I'm really interested how this will continue. At least on Android phones you can still sideload Signal via an alternative app store.

ridiculous_lol 5y ago
It definitely becomes tiresome than downloading an alternative chat app from Playstore. Signal has been gaining ground in India since Whatsapp came up with its new terms. A ban on Playstore will hinder that progress.
thomastjeffery 5y ago
If you want to piggy back on Google's centralized notification system (which saves network and battery usage), you have to distribute via the play store. I have no idea whether signal does this, but it would make sense for them to.
- vngzs 5y ago
  Signal has a means of delivering push notifications using their own infrastructure via websockets. It has a higher battery drain than using Google's push infrastructure, but it works.
- grishka 5y ago
  You don't. You do need to create an app in the Google API console to obtain the key to send GCM notifications, but that's completely independent from the Play Store.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    Also I believe microG does intermediate with GCM if you ask it to.
Mediterraneo10 5y ago
There has been speculation that in a future Android version, Google will extend features of its Advanced Protection program to all devices. One of those is that sideloading of APKs will no longer be possible unless you do it over the command line via ADB. Only a tiny percentage of the population, techies like us, would be comfortable doing that. So, "you can still sideload" might not be a thing for long.

bvi 5y ago

> centralised app stores Makes me wonder...are there blockchain-based app stores that could serve as a viable alternative?

foepys 5y ago
Why would you need blockchain? For decades decentralized services worked without blockchain.
- edoceo 5y ago
  But bLoCkChAiN!!
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  A blockchain allows developers to out-source the running of a globally-available append-only log. Such a log is useful for building something like Trillian: https://transparency.dev/#trillian https://transparency.dev/#trillian
  - aaronfitz 5y ago
    I was very confused by this comment until I realized that this is a different project from the Trillian messenger.
  - rakoo 5y ago
    Ok but how does a globally-available append-only log help distribute applications ? The technology is probably interesting, but it doesn't help solve the problem at hand
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      If you can securely distribute the hash of the binary, you can probably also distribute a set of URLs representing where the binary can be downloaded from. Bittorrent would fit well as a way of distributing the apps themselves, as that ecosystem already uses magnet links, and developers could quite cheaply run a node which acts as a seed of last resort.

grishka 5y ago

Android allows sideloading apps, and IIRC the market share of iOS in India is very small.

EthOptimist 5y ago

This is one of the big reasons I've chosen to use Android where I can install apks on my device. Though I may not have the "blue bubble" of iMessage so many in the USA seem to associate with higher status

okdjnfweonfe 5y ago

> On the plain old internet, nobody had to care about the whims of regressive governments. Wasn't X forced to not have encryption built in due to the US's horrible encryption laws at the time?