6 ms·

It's things like this that make it such a shock to go to an extremely safe country / area. All the little scripts one has to keep track of to be "safe and secur

It's things like this that make it such a shock to go to an extremely safe country / area. All the little scripts one has to keep track of to be "safe and secure" in the US (e.g. instinctively locking your doors all the way to learning that you can't park in SF to take your girlfriend to lunch on your way to drop her off at the airport because a big suitcase is a target for these rampant smash-and-grabs; unfortunately I had to learn this one the hard way) seem absurd if the whole society functions well. Figuring out how to park on a hill to deter cat theft, buy security nuts for wheels to avoid wheel theft, using special security nuts for one's bike parts to avoid bike component theft (not to mention having to find indoor bike parking because brazen daylight bike theft just seems to be tolerated now) are the sort of tricks one learns to adapt to, but when you visit a place like Japan, Singapore, or Norway, all of this stuff makes you realize how dystopic things have gotten in the US. Not saying that no country is without flaws, but the little "quality of life hacks" one must do to be safe in the US don't make up for things descending as far into chaos as they have.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Petty theft patterns in states that have passed ballot measures or counties that have taken executive actions reducing the penalties on petty theft to the point where the ROI is positive even if you get regularly caught should not be taken as indicative of the entire country. I live in a city that most of HN would turn up their nose at. It's nothing like what people from the west coast describe as the status quo there. And it's not some city in a red state that spends big bucks on law and order either.
- iammisc 5y ago
  Yeah my parents moved from LA in california to rural Washington. People told them a kinds of things including that they wouldn't feel welcome .. we are brown skinned and they immigrated here. This area is deep red The city they moved to is hours from am airport. Smack dab nowhere. They didn't find it dangerous at all. To the contrary people there were extremely welcoming ... Very neighborly. They could leave their door unlocked and not be bothered. The occasional (and I mean occasional) theft was big news and the guy was caught Far cry from getting our house vandalized with gang graffiti
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Having lived in several west coast cities, is largely a west coast phenomenon and policies enacted by these local governments. SF, Portland, LA, Seattle, etc. all have roots in common thread of policies (reducing or eliminating penalties for crime, dysfunctional governments, housing crisis, reduction in police funding, etc). > In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-was-once-a-byword-for-tattooed-vegan-microbrewers https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  And when you call the Police they just show up so that you can file a police report for your insurance and record-keeping. The more candid officers will tell you not to expect anything from "the investigation".
Loughla 5y ago
Maybe it's your definition of 'extremely safe' areas? I don't own security nuts, or special locks for my bike, or have ever had my home/car broken into despite not even knowing where my house key is at this point and never locking my car. I don't understand the comparison to the other countries, either. Are you saying they don't have petty crime?
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  Ah I should be more specific: urban areas in those countries. The level of petty crime in any major city in the US is far higher than any city in those countries I mentioned. In non-urban areas in the US things are better for sure, but you still have to deal with other things like having complete asshole neighbors that you really can't do anything about because small quality of life crimes like partying every night with loud music is not a crime. If you move to rural areas this goes down even further, but then you give up a lot of amenities.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    I dunno. Staying in an Airbnb in Seoul, I woke at ~1am to someone banging on my door and yelling for about five minutes. Pretty sure if it weren't locked, I'd be in some sort of trouble.
    - shard 5y ago
      From another angle, I've been to a restaurant in a central part of Seoul where the owner kept his cash in a wooden box with no lock by the entrance. Pretty sure anyone could have grabbed that box and ran out the door, especially when the owner is in the back preparing the food.
  - zaphod12 5y ago
    This is a really awfully broad generalization. Crime in SF, NY, Chicago, Boston, LA or Houston are all vastly different situations. Even with shootings up a ton this past year, NYC is still safer per capita than places like Savannah. SF seems to have gotten very out of control, though. Fwiw, I would never leave my car unlocked anywhere, but I also wouldn't feel weird about leaving a bag out. And there is a ton of pick pocketing and petty theft in places like Barcelona, Lisbon, Rome and Paris. Big cities require some attentiveness.
jeffreyrogers 5y ago
Most parts of the US aren't like that. Even California wasn't like that not too long ago.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  Local policy matters.
icedistilled 5y ago
Certain suburbs like Irvine CA are for safety but not for diversity and culture of a city. Choose one.
- danSimmons44 5y ago
  It is a shame that all of the “Culture and Diversity” is so prone to stealing catalytic converters in the middle of the night. That is really cool that you can get Ethiopian food at 2AM, but I don’t like all of the things that come with it.
  - icedistilled 5y ago
    What do you mean by that? By culture and diversity I meant the hubbub of the city, with a ton going on and all types of stores, bars, and restaurants but the way it's phrased in your comment sounds a lot more pointed and not at all what I meant.
  - bredren 5y ago
    This alter will get matched with your main. You might as well just speak your mind with that account.
- iammisc 5y ago
  Irvine is more diverse than the majority of the USA... What are you talking about?
  - icedistilled 5y ago
    Irvine is notable for it's sterility and being family friendly and clean. While it's safe (mostly) to walk around late at night, there's nowhere to walk. All of it is basically office park style landscaping mandated by HOA's and beige houses. The majority of businesses are chains. The selection of restaurants is not remarkable for california.
f38zf5vdt 5y ago
I garner a _lot_ of downvotes every time I mention that the US in many locales shares more in common with a third world country than a first world country. So many people seem addicted to the notion of US cultural superiority because their jobs pay the most. Go on YouTube or Google street view and see for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1MveHv1lTVBzdM5VYZkcBQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1MveHv1lTVBzdM5VYZkcBQ/vid... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opo3OuUae5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opo3OuUae5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNvEcR_jM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNvEcR_jM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo
- _huayra_ 5y ago
  Yeah the "highest salaries = best country!" trend is strong on HN, but high salaries can't really buy you the things you get basically for free in a different country due to culture / government differences. Turns out you can buy a lot of infrastructure and social welfare programs with all the tax revenue not spent on $100 rolls of toilet paper and bombs for secret wars halfway around the world cuz "freedumb!". Even when people point out how those "other countries" may tax you like crazy (which is only half true), the amount of time wealth you get back is significant, e.g. grade-school kids commonly commute to and from school by public transit where I live now (although sometimes with a chaperone if they're too young) and women go running at night in the relatively unlit park near my house, which I never saw where I lived in the US (even in relatively safe burbs). You also don't really have to own a gigantic money-sucking vehicle that you have to worry about insuring, parking, damaging, etc, in most European cities either.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Instead of anecdotes, how about we look at objective data? https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
reidjs 5y ago
When I owned a car in SF, I always put a visible sign that said 'please don't break in' on it. One of the reasons I decided to sell that car was the daily anxiety of it getting broken into.
- icedistilled 5y ago
  I occasionally saw signs that said "nothing of value" on car windows near where I lived, but I always figured the thieves would assume that's what someone who kept stuff in their car would post. Did you get broken into a lot?
tomc1985 5y ago
That kind of advise was par for course living in Amsterdam Zuidoost, as well as travelling around Berlin, Madrid, Santiago.... I'd say it applies to being anywhere with a significant crime rate or poverty burden Hardly unique to the US
- letitbeirie 5y ago
  Advice I got in Amsterdam: Buy a bike worth less than the lock.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    Yup! The nice thing is that when that bike inevitably breaks, the city's underworld provides an efficient and free bike disposal service
alex_c 5y ago
>Figuring out how to park on a hill to deter cat theft Can you explain this one?
- darrylb42 5y ago
  For a low car you would need to jack it up to get to the catalytic converter. Shouldn't do that on a hill as the car could fall off the jack. Usually you only hear about pickup trucks or larger vehicles getting their cats stolen as you can get under more easily.
economusty 5y ago
Mostly in Democrat runs cities. Go ahead, down vote me because you can't handle the truth.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Petty theft patterns in states that have passed ballot measures or counties that have taken executive actions reducing the penalties on petty theft to the point where the ROI is positive even if you get regularly caught should not be taken as indicative of the entire country. I live in a city that most of HN would turn up their nose at. It's nothing like what people from the west coast describe as the status quo there. And it's not some city in a red state that spends big bucks on law and order either.

iammisc 5y ago
Yeah my parents moved from LA in california to rural Washington. People told them a kinds of things including that they wouldn't feel welcome .. we are brown skinned and they immigrated here. This area is deep red The city they moved to is hours from am airport. Smack dab nowhere. They didn't find it dangerous at all. To the contrary people there were extremely welcoming ... Very neighborly. They could leave their door unlocked and not be bothered. The occasional (and I mean occasional) theft was big news and the guy was caught Far cry from getting our house vandalized with gang graffiti
systemvoltage 5y ago
Having lived in several west coast cities, is largely a west coast phenomenon and policies enacted by these local governments. SF, Portland, LA, Seattle, etc. all have roots in common thread of policies (reducing or eliminating penalties for crime, dysfunctional governments, housing crisis, reduction in police funding, etc). > In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-was-once-a-byword-for-tattooed-vegan-microbrewers https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...
BitwiseFool 5y ago
And when you call the Police they just show up so that you can file a police report for your insurance and record-keeping. The more candid officers will tell you not to expect anything from "the investigation".

Loughla 5y ago

Maybe it's your definition of 'extremely safe' areas? I don't own security nuts, or special locks for my bike, or have ever had my home/car broken into despite not even knowing where my house key is at this point and never locking my car. I don't understand the comparison to the other countries, either. Are you saying they don't have petty crime?

_huayra_ 5y ago
Ah I should be more specific: urban areas in those countries. The level of petty crime in any major city in the US is far higher than any city in those countries I mentioned. In non-urban areas in the US things are better for sure, but you still have to deal with other things like having complete asshole neighbors that you really can't do anything about because small quality of life crimes like partying every night with loud music is not a crime. If you move to rural areas this goes down even further, but then you give up a lot of amenities.
- dnautics 5y ago
  I dunno. Staying in an Airbnb in Seoul, I woke at ~1am to someone banging on my door and yelling for about five minutes. Pretty sure if it weren't locked, I'd be in some sort of trouble.
  - shard 5y ago
    From another angle, I've been to a restaurant in a central part of Seoul where the owner kept his cash in a wooden box with no lock by the entrance. Pretty sure anyone could have grabbed that box and ran out the door, especially when the owner is in the back preparing the food.
- zaphod12 5y ago
  This is a really awfully broad generalization. Crime in SF, NY, Chicago, Boston, LA or Houston are all vastly different situations. Even with shootings up a ton this past year, NYC is still safer per capita than places like Savannah. SF seems to have gotten very out of control, though. Fwiw, I would never leave my car unlocked anywhere, but I also wouldn't feel weird about leaving a bag out. And there is a ton of pick pocketing and petty theft in places like Barcelona, Lisbon, Rome and Paris. Big cities require some attentiveness.

jeffreyrogers 5y ago

Most parts of the US aren't like that. Even California wasn't like that not too long ago.

chitowneats 5y ago
Local policy matters.

icedistilled 5y ago

Certain suburbs like Irvine CA are for safety but not for diversity and culture of a city. Choose one.

danSimmons44 5y ago
It is a shame that all of the “Culture and Diversity” is so prone to stealing catalytic converters in the middle of the night. That is really cool that you can get Ethiopian food at 2AM, but I don’t like all of the things that come with it.
- icedistilled 5y ago
  What do you mean by that? By culture and diversity I meant the hubbub of the city, with a ton going on and all types of stores, bars, and restaurants but the way it's phrased in your comment sounds a lot more pointed and not at all what I meant.
- bredren 5y ago
  This alter will get matched with your main. You might as well just speak your mind with that account.
iammisc 5y ago
Irvine is more diverse than the majority of the USA... What are you talking about?
- icedistilled 5y ago
  Irvine is notable for it's sterility and being family friendly and clean. While it's safe (mostly) to walk around late at night, there's nowhere to walk. All of it is basically office park style landscaping mandated by HOA's and beige houses. The majority of businesses are chains. The selection of restaurants is not remarkable for california.

f38zf5vdt 5y ago

I garner a _lot_ of downvotes every time I mention that the US in many locales shares more in common with a third world country than a first world country. So many people seem addicted to the notion of US cultural superiority because their jobs pay the most. Go on YouTube or Google street view and see for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1MveHv1lTVBzdM5VYZkcBQ/videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1MveHv1lTVBzdM5VYZkcBQ/vid... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opo3OuUae5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opo3OuUae5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNvEcR_jM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNvEcR_jM8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo

_huayra_ 5y ago
Yeah the "highest salaries = best country!" trend is strong on HN, but high salaries can't really buy you the things you get basically for free in a different country due to culture / government differences. Turns out you can buy a lot of infrastructure and social welfare programs with all the tax revenue not spent on $100 rolls of toilet paper and bombs for secret wars halfway around the world cuz "freedumb!". Even when people point out how those "other countries" may tax you like crazy (which is only half true), the amount of time wealth you get back is significant, e.g. grade-school kids commonly commute to and from school by public transit where I live now (although sometimes with a chaperone if they're too young) and women go running at night in the relatively unlit park near my house, which I never saw where I lived in the US (even in relatively safe burbs). You also don't really have to own a gigantic money-sucking vehicle that you have to worry about insuring, parking, damaging, etc, in most European cities either.
systemvoltage 5y ago
Instead of anecdotes, how about we look at objective data? https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

reidjs 5y ago

When I owned a car in SF, I always put a visible sign that said 'please don't break in' on it. One of the reasons I decided to sell that car was the daily anxiety of it getting broken into.

icedistilled 5y ago
I occasionally saw signs that said "nothing of value" on car windows near where I lived, but I always figured the thieves would assume that's what someone who kept stuff in their car would post. Did you get broken into a lot?

tomc1985 5y ago

That kind of advise was par for course living in Amsterdam Zuidoost, as well as travelling around Berlin, Madrid, Santiago.... I'd say it applies to being anywhere with a significant crime rate or poverty burden Hardly unique to the US

letitbeirie 5y ago
Advice I got in Amsterdam: Buy a bike worth less than the lock.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  Yup! The nice thing is that when that bike inevitably breaks, the city's underworld provides an efficient and free bike disposal service

alex_c 5y ago

>Figuring out how to park on a hill to deter cat theft Can you explain this one?

darrylb42 5y ago
For a low car you would need to jack it up to get to the catalytic converter. Shouldn't do that on a hill as the car could fall off the jack. Usually you only hear about pickup trucks or larger vehicles getting their cats stolen as you can get under more easily.

economusty 5y ago

Mostly in Democrat runs cities. Go ahead, down vote me because you can't handle the truth.